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Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Verina — 2009-02-08T19:52:52-00:00

I'm getting close to the point in my fanfic story The Program where the main character... and a few friends will be applying to Whateley and I need to know something about the following.

What is the yearly tuition at Whateley for one student?

Does tuition vary depending on class schedule, or special requirements due to mutantion?

Are all expenses, such as books, uniforms and other standard expenses included in the tuition, or are they separate?

Is gold or diamonds acceptable forms of payment?

And, is the market value of gold and diamonds, as well as other rare/precious metals and gems the same in the WU as they are here?

I'm sure I'll probably have... WILL have more questions as things get closer to actually getting to Whateley

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

oljak.eru — 2009-02-08T22:24:18-00:00

Chou's tuition was paid in gold. So yes, the school does take money in that form, it seems.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Maggie_Finson — 2009-02-09T01:27:59-00:00

If it's acceptable currency, Whateley takes it. Gold, silver, folding money, change from about a hundred jars...

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

LuLou — 2009-02-09T02:05:06-00:00

If you're not on scholarship, it can run some money. The most expensive real-world private school I found is La Rosey that runs $85,000 plus for a year.

Ayla #3

"For example, what if I paid investigators to discover that Aries is really Arnold Harvey, son of Mildred and Clifford Harvey living on Old Mill Road just west of Fennimore, Wisconsin, with a $327,000 mortgage taken out on their dairy farm to pay your Whateley education..."

"Time for an Unexpected Gift"

"Right, no language like that. But that account... $400,000? We will never have to see this place again, we could even go to school without a scholarship.

I can't find the reference that most of the students are on some kind of scholarship, but it's somewhere.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Faraway — 2009-02-09T06:26:34-00:00

It's supposed to be in an earlier story of Tennyo or Jade. Jade more likely. Ah, found it.

Jade 2

"I don't know. Won't they want to charge double tuition?"

"Not if she's on a scholarship. Almost half the student body is."

It refers to her deciding to study as 2 students - Jada AND Jinn.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

LuLou — 2009-02-09T06:28:04-00:00

Thanks, I knew I'd seen it somewhere.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Faraway — 2009-02-09T07:21:48-00:00

LuLou wrote on Mon, 09 February 2009 07:05

If you're not on scholarship, it can run some money. The most expensive real-world private school I found is La Rosey that runs $85,000 plus for a year.

Ayla #3

"Time for an Unexpected Gift"

"Right, no language like that. But that account... $400,000? We will never have to see this place again, we could even go to school without a scholarship.

I can't find the reference that most of the students are on some kind of scholarship, but it's somewhere.

LuLou, I also think $400,000 refers for whole time study tuition, meaning $100,000 a year.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

grover — 2009-02-09T19:15:31-00:00

Plus don't forget those Lab fees! More than a few of the students seem to depend on producing patents and other sources of income from what they develop while at school. The trading of services are widely accepted, but materials aren't cheap.

grover.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

James K — 2009-02-10T00:23:31-00:00

grover:

Quote:

More than a few of the students seem to depend on producing patents and other sources of income from what they develop while at school.

Not to mention people like Tennyo, Silver and Garafina who can produce highly valuable substances.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Bladedancer — 2009-02-10T00:33:13-00:00

Given everything, Whateley makes more then they loose in a year, even with damage. Remember, they get a cut of various patents created at the school as well as part of anything created on campus, like Mithril, anti-venoms, etc... So, that helps fund the scholarships. Then you have people who give very generous donations to the school to help need students. It all works out in the end.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

James K — 2009-02-10T00:45:30-00:00

And Tennyo's antimatter will really help there. It would cost CERN 1 quadrillion dollars to produce 1 gram of antimatter, though that number's a little tricky since it would also take CERN about a million years to produce 1 gram of antimatter.

Now in the Whatelely universe, antimatter may be cheaper with warpers and devisors running around, but I'd be surprised if it still wasn't the most valuable substance on the planet.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Sir Lee — 2009-02-10T02:25:52-00:00

James K wrote on Mon, 09 February 2009 22:45

Now in the Whatelely universe, antimatter may be cheaper with warpers and devisors running around, but I'd be surprised if it still wasn't the most valuable substance on the planet.

Well... it may be, or it may be not. Mithril is pretty expensive, and orichalcum is supposed to be even more so. If devises make antimatter cheaper, it might drop below the current market price of orichalcum.

Which, of course, is still roughly 1/10 the price of the most expensive material in the universe: PRINTER INK.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

charm — 2009-02-10T04:13:26-00:00

James K wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 13:45

Actually, I think you (and the authors) are confusing "cost" with "value". Antimatter is VERY expensive to create in this universe. However, its VALUE isn't that high, because there's so little of it, there isn't much use for it. Demand is LOW. Pretty much the only people who use antimatter are the same people who are making it.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Hart — 2009-02-10T05:53:44-00:00

Heyla

I am fairly certain that the $400,000 mentions an account, not a fee or overall requirement so that would not be appropriate to deducing the non-scholarship fee except possibly as an upper bound.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Faraway — 2009-02-10T06:48:56-00:00

Hart wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 10:53

And I thought that was obvious.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

James K — 2009-02-10T06:51:07-00:00

Charm:
Its true that cost is not value, but antimatter is a useful material for research, and since it can theoretically be used for power generation, it would be demanded if it was available in sufficient quantity.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

The Unicorn — 2009-02-10T09:17:54-00:00

James K wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 01:51

Actually I'm pretty sure it's the other way around - It would be available in sufficient quantity (Which would be measured in micro and nano grams) if there was demand for it.

There is currently no facility built to produce anti-matter, although there are several which occasionally produce a bit to study.

According to Robert L. Forward a facility designed to produce anti matter (as opposed to one designed to research sub-atomic particles and high energy interactions therof) would reduce the cost of producing anti matter by orders of magnitude even without any new scientific developments.

The Unicorn

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

A. Lurker — 2009-02-10T09:56:00-00:00

Well, in principle there isn't (as far as I know) much reason why creating antimatter should be any harder than creating just plain ordinary matter. Oh, wait...we're not so hot at doing that either.

'Realistically', it's likely that creating antimatter for power generation purposes would result in a net loss -- you'd need to put more energy into the production process than you could get back out of the reaction with normal matter afterwards. (That's basic layman thermodynamics: You can't get something for nothing, and no process is 100% efficient.) Where Tennyo gets hers (and, for that matter, why her metabolism utilizes antimatter in the first place) is still a bit of a mystery.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Belgarion213 — 2009-02-10T10:04:40-00:00

And liable to remain so since Tenryo is, as the vessal of the Destroyer, sanity shattering when you really begin to understand HOW she operates very similar to Great Old Ones.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

A. Lurker — 2009-02-10T10:24:36-00:00

Belgarion213 wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 11:04

And liable to remain so since Tenryo is, as the vessal of the Destroyer, sanity shattering when you really begin to understand HOW she operates very similar to Great Old Ones.

Bah, sanity is overrated. Inquiring minds want to know!

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

tensai — 2009-02-10T10:30:27-00:00

A. Lurker wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 02:24

Bah, sanity is overrated.

You say that now...

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

A. Lurker — 2009-02-10T10:33:03-00:00

tensai wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 11:30

A. Lurker wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 02:24

Bah, sanity is overrated.

You say that now...

You just fhtagn...

( right back atcha.)

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

The Unicorn — 2009-02-10T12:03:41-00:00

A. Lurker wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 04:56

AFAIK no one has ever proposed anti matter be used to generate power. Many ideas about it being for propulsion have been suggested however.

The Unicorn

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Faraway — 2009-02-10T12:34:35-00:00

A. Lurker wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 15:33

tensai wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 11:30

A. Lurker wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 02:24

Bah, sanity is overrated.

You say that now...

You just fhtagn...

( right back atcha.)

Rest assured, tensai, we will say that again afterwards.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

charm — 2009-02-10T18:40:14-00:00

A. Lurker wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 22:56

Uh, not that big a mystery. In the OVA Ryoko (and Ryo-Ohki)is derived from a creature called the MAS that apparently uses antimatter. (So my theory is the Star Stalker included that as part of Billie's image of Ryoko.)

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

oljak.eru — 2009-02-10T18:43:00-00:00

Scientists *are* trying to find an answer to the question of why the universe is almost entirely matter, not antimatter, when it's created in equal parts. The answer should be obvious - it all went into making the Destroyer!

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Faraway — 2009-02-10T19:16:01-00:00

charm wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 23:40

A. Lurker wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 22:56

Charm, then how do you explain Tennyo's Memory waters-induced dream when she looked EXACTLY THE SAME? It was (most likely) Star Stalker's memory of the past, but she still had those powers.

oljak.eru wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 23:43

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!

A very nice theory. In fact, modern science speculates that matter and antimatter had marginally different probabilities of being realised in the Big Bang, so the matter of the Universe is in fact that meager portion that was realised on top of annihilating substances. So they weren't created in equal parts. But don't you think Destroyer's creators (Sufficiently Advanced Aliens) would have trouble becoming existant at all if your theory is correct? It's like the "chicken-egg relative temporal placement" case, or like (Wikipedia ripoff) FTL-Travel case where you need a working equipment of FTL-Travel to create working equipment of FTL-Travel, thus making FTL-Travel impossible (for now, at least).

And for you who did not get it, FTL stands for Faster Than Light.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

A. Lurker — 2009-02-10T19:19:58-00:00

charm wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 19:40

That might mean something to me if I'd ever seen any version of the anime. In fact...*checks Wikipedia*...it seems that my own mental image of Billie from the descriptions in the stories has been somewhat at odds with the 'real' thing after all. (Most notably, I pictured her hair shorter, differently cut, and more obviously blue.) Go figure.

Anyway, figuring out where Tennyo's antimatter comes from could easily be an ongoing research project. After all, the scientist who manages to find a practical way to duplicate the process is looking at at least a Nobel prize...

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

eddie — 2009-02-10T19:40:57-00:00

The best novels i have read about antimatter are:-
Ceetee Ship & its sequel Ceetee Shock.

Ceetee standing for Contra Terrene.

Eddie

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Anvildude — 2009-02-10T20:25:29-00:00

Not to mention, why the heck did Jade compare Billie's hair with Tetsuon Atom? Astro Boy's hair looks nothing like Ryoko's.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

XaltatunOfAcheron — 2009-02-10T20:28:04-00:00

oljak.eru wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 11:43

ROFL!

Well, the notion that matter and antimatter were created in equal parts isn't all that solid either. As far as I'm concerned, modern physics has hit a dead end, similar to the one toward the end of the 19th century, where someone actually submitted a bill in Congress to shut down the Patent Office because everything had already been discovered!

Then they discovered radioactivity.

We need a new perspective on physics. What if the universe only has three dimensions (two space, one of time) rather than four, or ten, or eleven, or 18, or whatever variant of Grand Unified Theory that's being pushed at the moment? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle

The truly amazing thing about this is that there may be actual evidence, other than the failure of a generation of mathematical physicists to deal with gravity in the framework of quantum mechanics.

Interesting times, indeed.

Xaltatun

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

charm — 2009-02-11T04:10:32-00:00

Faraway wrote on Wed, 11 February 2009 08:16

Charm, then how do you explain Tennyo's Memory waters-induced dream when she looked EXACTLY THE SAME? It was (most likely) Star Stalker's memory of the past, but she still had those powers.

I have vague memories that in one of the stories it's suggested that Ryoko is based on the Star Stalker.

That said, if the Star Stalker really is a GOO, then antimatter seems a pretty poor energy source, I'd imagine taping the quantum foam would be a much better. Maybe that's where it's getting the antimatter from? Another possibility, it's re-arranging normal matter to create anti-matter. Actually, is it possible that the Star Stalker isn't antimatter powered, it just generates antimatter to use as weapons.
Final point (to think about) why does Tennyo eat so much normal food? The energy input (compared to antimatter) is negligible. However, in a Manga that I managed to get my hands on she eats a phenomenal amount. (An entire cow for dinner!)

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

oljak.eru — 2009-02-11T04:27:01-00:00

Remember:
- The antimatter is contained using her warper powers, the blasts and swords she uses are contained by her warper powers, heck her flying is done using her warper power.
- Her various blasts and swords are probably made using her energiser power, as they seem to be of a more mundane nature.
- She's an extremely high level regen, maybe to compensate for damage her own powers make on her body if she lets loose.
- Her *star stalker* powers don't seem to make her hungry - at least not for normal human food. Probably because they aren't made using her mutant powers, they're part of her very nature.

Warpers don't seem to have to eat more than normal people, usually. At least Phase isn't eating like Tennyo. But then she's a much higher level warper, and possibly needs to use her power to purely maintain her body, which means she'd be using it all the time.

Energisers DO eat more than most people.

What we've heard about healers and regens isn't consistent - sometimes it seems the materials are needed, sometimes not.

And the Star Stalker nature doesn't seem straight forward either. I think she's got two influences from that - the Destroyer side, and the GOO side.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Faraway — 2009-02-11T06:10:31-00:00

Don't forget in earlier stories it was mentioned she ALWAYS uses some powers even without knowing. While power detector armbands detect intentional use of powers they didn't react to these. So her energy demand could be explained by constant use of powers. We know she can manipulate antimatter around with her powers, and IIRC her very cells sometimes contain antimatter, so she could be using her powers to keep that condition stable. When her powers are nullified SS takes care of that, being a powerful enough entity.

charm wrote on Wed, 11 February 2009 09:10

I have vague memories that in one of the stories it's suggested that Ryoko is based on the Star Stalker.
------------------------------------------------
Another possibility, it's re-arranging normal matter to create anti-matter. Actually, is it possible that the Star Stalker isn't antimatter powered, it just generates antimatter to use as weapons.

I remember that as well. Something about long-lost legends or collective subconcious memories giving matching descriptions of ancient entities in modern fiction.

And yes, I think it could be the source of Billie's antimatter, and she isn't antimatter powered. SS itself uses her vast powers as part GOO and sustains them with demon-eating.

oljak.eru wrote on Wed, 11 February 2009 09:27

What we've heard about healers and regens isn't consistent - sometimes it seems the materials are needed, sometimes not.

I think Regens naturally gather a lot more resources in their cells for their regeneration. That is why Merry brother's death was so gruesome - while cause of death was "complete cellular starvation" he had hours (days maybe) of agony. So when Merry got her arm hacked off there were enough resources there to start regrowth into Petra, but it depleted most reserves. Seems those aren't replenishing themselves fast so after the fight with the devil and having half body hacked off was too much for depleted supply and osteoporosis was inflicted. Plus, it was noted that faster regeneration rates need a lot more energy than slower rates, so it could be another causative factor. Also, we know after her "operation" Jade had a hearty appetite to restore her supply.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Rose2 — 2009-02-11T13:59:45-00:00

Not that I don't find all of this facinating but this thread is suposed to be about Whateley Tuition & Expenses.

Maybe the Cabal could crak open thier Whateley Bible and settle it?

Rose2

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Verina — 2009-02-11T17:23:23-00:00

Rose2 wrote on Wed, 11 February 2009 07:59

Not that I don't find all of this facinating but this thread is suposed to be about Whateley Tuition & Expenses.

Maybe the Cabal could crak open thier Whateley Bible and settle it?

Thank you Rose2
I just finished reading all the replies I got, so while I found the discussion of anti-matter interesting it was a bit off the subject, and I was trying to think of a polite way of steering things back to my original questions.... or more likely just waiting for things to wonder back on its own

Verina

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Diane Castle — 2009-02-11T21:11:18-00:00

Rose2 wrote on Wed, 11 February 2009 05:59

Not that I don't find all of this facinating but this thread is suposed to be about Whateley Tuition & Expenses.

Maybe the Cabal could crak open thier Whateley Bible and settle it?

Rose2

[1] Thanks for thinking about the thread.

[2] Carson keeps changing it, and the Board of Directors haven't complained about it. But right now it's somewhere between $120,000 and $140,000 (American) per year. That amount is clearly: too high for most people to pay; utterly irrational for kids coming from Third World countries; and obviously not adequate to cover all the expenses a place like Whateley would really incur.

Kids like Tansy and Ayla (okay, everyone in the Golden Kids) don't even notice the tuition cost. But even kids like Tennyo (two superhero parents with substantial CIA salaries) may be on some sort of partial scholarship or at least part-time work. Kids like Silver may get a large assist from the superhero group back home, but get help from the school too. Still, most students at Whateley are on a full, or significant, or partial, or minimal scholarship.

Carson handles all this, with a *lot* of assistance from Amelia Hartford. Hartford is not only a whiz with numbers, but also understands finance from both the legal and less-than-legal viewpoints. Hartford may have problems with many of the students and some of the school supervisors, but she is a great asset to the school's financial structuring. Plus, she has a lot of contacts on both sides of the fence.

Also, a large number of organizations and individuals contribute massive amounts of money every year. These contributions easily outweigh the tuitions paid by all students combined. Carson knows that the money from the Syndicate, Lord Paramount, Dr. Diabolik, etc., is not exactly clean as the driven snow, but she's a wise old bird, so to speak. (Well, she's old, she's wise, and she flies. Close enough?)

Diane

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Faraway — 2009-02-11T21:20:22-00:00

Um, didn't she contact Parry to ask his opinion on culprit behind Halloween Invasion (because she knew his... affairs )? Or Parry gives out both as an Alumnus and as a... man with affairs .

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Verina — 2009-02-11T22:38:48-00:00

Diane Castle wrote on Wed, 11 February 2009 15:11

Carson keeps changing it, and the Board of Directors haven't complained about it. But right now it's somewhere between $120,000 and $140,000 (American) per year. That amount is clearly: too high for most people to pay; utterly irrational for kids coming from Third World countries; and obviously not adequate to cover all the expenses a place like Whateley would really incur.

$120,000 to $140,000?
hummmm... At current market value that would be about 120 to 140 one ounce gold coins(Krugerrands, Canadian Maple Leafs, or American Gold Eagles)... or about 3.75kg to 4.36kg... No problem

Verina

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

James K — 2009-02-11T22:40:35-00:00

Diane:

Quote:

Hartford is not only a whiz with numbers, but also understands finance from both the legal and less-than-legal viewpoints.

Hartford is a walking example of the House-McKay principle. Anyone that obnoxious must have really valuable skills, otherwise they'd be gone by now.

Quote:

That amount is clearly: too high for most people to pay; utterly irrational for kids coming from Third World countries; and obviously not adequate to cover all the expenses a place like Whateley would really incur.

I wonder if it works a bit like an Ivy League school (or at least how I think those schools work) where there's the nominal tuition, but hardly anyone actually pays it because there's a sliding scale. In terms of revenue, there's always the various patrons to consider. Lord Paramount could probably bankroll the school himself if he chose to (and if Carson didn't mind the school being beholden entirely to him).

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

oljak.eru — 2009-02-11T22:56:30-00:00

James K wrote on Wed, 11 February 2009 23:40

Diane:

Quote:

Hartford is not only a whiz with numbers, but also understands finance from both the legal and less-than-legal viewpoints.

Hartford is a walking example of the House-McKay principle. Anyone that obnoxious must have really valuable skills, otherwise they'd be gone by now.

Sounds exactly like her.

Quote:

In terms of revenue, there's always the various patrons to consider. Lord Paramount could probably bankroll the school himself if he chose to (and if Carson didn't mind the school being beholden entirely to him).

Heh, and do you think the heroes of the world would put up with a school entirely fielded by Lord Paramount? No, the real reason for the school to take money from as many disparate sources as possible is to ensure the accords. The neutrality of the school is the most important factor for it's continued existence, and it can only be assured by having *every* side get it's share. The anti-mutant organisations get overview and mutant control, the mutant organisations get protection and education. The lawbreakers get refuge and training, the lawenforcers get some level of peace and training. Then there's fifty-eleven *different* reasons for organisations to be friendly or not with any single of the other organisations.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Rose2 — 2009-02-12T03:21:09-00:00

Diane Castle wrote on Wed, 11 February 2009 16:11

Carson knows that the money from the Syndicate, Lord Paramount, Dr. Diabolik, etc., is not exactly clean as the driven snow, but she's a wise old bird, so to speak. (Well, she's old, she's wise, and she flies. Close enough?)

Diane

I was told this about money back in High school when I lived in Miami, Fl. Back in the late '70's:

Money is just money

You can spend it on feeding the poor

You can spend it on whores

one bill is no better than the other

it is all up to you and your motives.

Rose2

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

James K — 2009-02-12T09:30:26-00:00

Diane:

Quote:

Also, a large number of organizations and individuals contribute massive amounts of money every year. These contributions easily outweigh the tuitions paid by all students combined. Carson knows that the money from the Syndicate, Lord Paramount, Dr. Diabolik, etc., is not exactly clean as the driven snow, but she's a wise old bird, so to speak. (Well, she's old, she's wise, and she flies. Close enough?)

Wow, somehow I completely missed this part of your post when I wrote my reply. Makes the end of my last post entirely obsolete. Well I guess that's what happens when I skim too fast.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Babs — 2009-02-12T18:16:16-00:00

eddie wrote

The best novels i have read about antimatter are:-
Ceetee Ship & its sequel Ceetee Shock.

Ceetee standing for Contra Terrene.

Yeah, classics. Sadly out of print, and they're pretty dated, technically. Jack Williamson? Time to reread them, I guess. Still, the idea that you could craft anti-matter magetic joints to allow your matter and antimatter tools to link (or T and CT, in the story) was a great idea, though nowadays most stories use minuscule amounts of antimatter, rather than BUILDING WITH IT. I also liked how immense parts of the stories dealt with radiation sickness.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Sir Lee — 2009-02-23T16:04:12-00:00

Verina wrote on Wed, 11 February 2009 20:38

That's about right... the gold price is hovering around the US$ 1000,00 per Troy ounce, which makes the math easy.

However, I think there's an additional consideration, in the particular case of Chou's tuition... I DON'T think the Tao Immortals deal in Krugerrands or any other current bullion coins. Which means that the gold they used to pay Chou's tuition is likely *ancient* Chinese gold coins. Which should sell quite a bit above the bullion price.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

DaveK — 2009-02-23T19:05:49-00:00

Are you sure they're not just using ingots?

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Warren — 2009-02-23T19:09:22-00:00

I believe it was upon their arrive in one of the Chou chapters that the Taoist Gods handed Carson a bag of gold to "cover expenses."

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Coral — 2009-02-23T19:10:18-00:00

*nods* they did it again in the parents' day story.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Anvildude — 2009-02-23T19:31:24-00:00

could be dust and nuggets.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Bladedancer — 2009-02-23T21:48:19-00:00

Actually it is gold coins, from an earlier dynasty which ups the value of the individual coins.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

James K — 2009-02-24T06:02:50-00:00

Its not like the Chinese didn't have coins. China has been civilised for a very long time.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Bladedancer — 2009-02-24T06:11:31-00:00

James K wrote on Tue, 24 February 2009 01:02

Its not like the Chinese didn't have coins. China has been civilised for a very long time.

Absolutely. At least three weeks.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

negation — 2009-02-24T07:48:39-00:00

Bladedancer wrote on Tue, 24 February 2009 14:11

James K wrote on Tue, 24 February 2009 01:02

Its not like the Chinese didn't have coins. China has been civilised for a very long time.

Absolutely. At least three weeks.

HEY!

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Bladedancer — 2009-02-24T07:56:56-00:00

negation wrote on Tue, 24 February 2009 02:48

Bladedancer wrote on Tue, 24 February 2009 14:11

James K wrote on Tue, 24 February 2009 01:02

Its not like the Chinese didn't have coins. China has been civilised for a very long time.

Absolutely. At least three weeks.

HEY!

Well, it has been around at least three weeks...right? Are you implying that it is younger than three weeks?

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Belgarion213 — 2009-02-24T08:37:00-00:00

As paraphrased from the great Philosopher Wen the Eternally Surprised "I REMEMBER China yesterday but the memory is in my head NOW. Was the memory real at all? Truly yesterday China did not exist"

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Bookworm — 2009-02-24T16:27:34-00:00

Bladedancer wrote on Tue, 24 February 2009 00:11

James K wrote on Tue, 24 February 2009 01:02

Its not like the Chinese didn't have coins. China has been civilised for a very long time.

Absolutely. At least three weeks.

Are you sure?

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

oljak.eru — 2009-02-24T16:51:39-00:00

Bookworm wrote on Tue, 24 February 2009 17:27

Bladedancer wrote on Tue, 24 February 2009 00:11

James K wrote on Tue, 24 February 2009 01:02

Its not like the Chinese didn't have coins. China has been civilised for a very long time.

Absolutely. At least three weeks.

Are you sure?

Well, if you add upp all the periods it's been civilised together, then maybe you'd get three weeks.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Bookworm — 2009-02-24T17:59:41-00:00

oljak.eru wrote on Tue, 24 February 2009 10:51

Bookworm wrote on Tue, 24 February 2009 17:27

Bladedancer wrote on Tue, 24 February 2009 00:11

James K wrote on Tue, 24 February 2009 01:02

Its not like the Chinese didn't have coins. China has been civilised for a very long time.

Absolutely. At least three weeks.

Are you sure?

Well, if you add upp all the periods it's been civilised together, then maybe you'd get three weeks.

I could buy that... for a dollar.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

curiousreader — 2011-07-01T01:56:33-00:00

Bringing back the dead.

So do we finally have a number on the cost of attendance.

So far the cost that I can come up with is:

Cost of Attendance for 2006-2007
Tuition: 67,650
Health Services: 6,500
Student Sevices: 2,700
Room: 5,450
Board: 3,980

Subtotal: 86,280

Estimated Personal Expenses: 4,238
Estimated Travel Expenses: 1,000-3,567

Estimated Cost of Attendance: 94,085

So what do you think?

This doesn't count the lab fee's or the food the heavy hitters eat like Tennyo or Razorback.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

RedHat — 2011-07-01T03:11:33-00:00

curiousreader wrote on Thu, 30 June 2011 21:56

Yeah, I was thinking that there might have been some food costs tacked on for mutants with certain classifications, like regen or energizers, etc. It would make sense to add a food cost to every student, but more for the previously stated. As much as it would suck for some students, they DO have to treat Whateley like a business in the end, and businesses need money to cover their costs.

One could argue the various items and patents from the inventors in the labs helps it, but if the Alya stories are true and a lot of gadgeteers are actually unable to push most of their stuff... that can't be a good source of revenue.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

kd7mvs — 2011-07-01T03:29:43-00:00

It's not quite clear how they handle food. Some of the stories talk about swiping a student ID through a card reader, but it's not clear if they get charged per item, or it merely records that they've got food that meal. Most of the stories act as though food just happens, no mention of a checkout line or any form of food monitoring other than food services staff keeping an eye on things.

If they actually charge based upon food consumed by individuals, Tennyo and certain others are shelling out a lot more than most. Energizers take a lot of feeding. So do some of the shifters, like Jimmy T. And then there's Sara, who seems to be getting fed by the local humane society.

So, there could be a per meal food charge, either set rate or actual costs. There could be a semester food fee, akin to the lab fees, where you're charged whether you use them or not. There could be a semester food fee on a sliding scale taking into account who's a quantity food eater and who isn't.

E.E. Nalley's stories have scanning of student IDs with meals, I'm not sure if any of the other stories talk about it. Diane's stories are quite clear about Ayla picking up goodies and strolling over to his eating table, no mention of stopping for checkout, which is good because his food isn't on the list.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

E. E. Nalley — 2011-07-04T15:27:12-00:00

Ok, yes a lot of the others don't comment about everything that happens on the campus. I do a bit more than most because I think that adds detail. Every kid swipes their ID when they eat. This is not because they're being charged for the food, that's included in the tuition (the 'board' part of 'room and board').

Ok, so what is going on? So glad you asked!

The IDs are swiped for several reasons. One, it tracks the food consumed by every student as part of the medical studies of mutation that are ongoing through out the school. Two, it builds a profile trend of what foods are popular throughout the school and which are less picked. Finally, three, it's built into the logistics system that manages Whateley. This school receives a tractor trailer full of food twice a WEEK for a bit over one thousand people from Sysco Food Services. That's just what the kitchens receive at Crystal Hall. Dunwich Beverage and Concession is on the campus every other day stocking the Coke, Pepsi and snake machines throughout the school. They also supply the bag-in-box syrup for the Crystal Hall, Got to Eat and the Schoolhouse Restaurant's fountain services. Royal Cup also sends a tractor trailer once a week to central receiving for coffee and tea services, Georgia Pacific drops a trailer once a week for toilet paper, napkins, paper towels, etc.

And the list goes on. All of that has to be ordered. It used to have be ordered by hand, taking a staff of eighteen! Now three people manage through Support Services with the feed back from the badge swipes. Aren't you glad you asked?

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Odin — 2011-07-04T16:36:43-00:00

I'm glad he asked! Thank you.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

curiousreader — 2011-07-04T17:05:47-00:00

Wait...twice a week food delivery?

I thought it would be more because of the energizers, shifters, and others.

I mean tennyo herself could take the truck and combined with hank that does seem a bit light.

I remember that the univeristy I went to had deliveries once a week to serve roughtly 2000 folks.

Whateley has about 1000 people of who about 120 who eat enough for 5 people at a time...Hmmm that might be enough I'm not sure.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Diane Castle — 2011-07-04T18:06:54-00:00

E. E. Nalley wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 08:27

Well, every kid is *supposed* to swipe their card. Ayla is one of the few problem children. I think the reasons why are obvious.

Diane

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Sir Lee — 2011-07-04T18:22:05-00:00

E. E. Nalley wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 12:27

OK, a few comments/snarks/thoughts:

1. *SNAKE* machines?

2. For ordering purposes, I would think it would make more sense to keep track of consumables at the pantry->kitchen interface, not the restaurant itself. (That extends to other stuff, too, like toilet paper; if you were attempting to track it at the end-user level, you would have to swipe a card every time you took a crap, which I really don't see happening...)

But I suppose having a "cashier" at the end of the buffet to take note of what student took would achieve two goals:
a) Curb waste, both in the kitchen (some waste is expected, but if 200 kg meat leave the pantry and only 100 kg is actually consumed, there's something wrong...) and by the students (who will be less inclined to take lots of stuff they don't really want).
b) Keep track of student diets, for both health and scientific reasons.

3. How do they keep track of devisors who are lost in a project and have food taken to them by friends? Are the friends supposed to inform the "cashier" of the devisor's ID? I suppose that the card swipe might not be actually necessary, just a convenience -- the cashier can enter the student's codename/name/ID number manually if necessary; it takes longer, but can be done.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

curiousreader — 2011-07-04T19:03:49-00:00

Here's a thought for you. what happens to all of the whateley trash?

Do they recycle? Have students like the one that maniputles organic materials, break them into their organic parts and dispose of them?

Or do they have their own waste management system and landfill to dump it at.

That being said do they have a scrap yard for lab trash? They have one in town do they take old and broken machines their? Would you want them to? You might find an old gizmitic protype buried their and who knows what would happen then.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

E. E. Nalley — 2011-07-04T19:41:33-00:00

Ok, perhaps I wasn't as clear as I should have been. So, with a tip of the hat to Sir Lee (even Slyboots has to eat) but yes that should be SNACK machines, let me break this down a bit further.

For ease of reference, all the following measurements will be U.S. Standard Measure.

Sysco Food service brings 1 53 foot trailer twice a week. This trailer has 22 pallets on it (two foot by 40 inches by six feet) and, on average each pallet has 1 ton of food on it. That's 44 tons of bulk food every week, JUST for the Crystal Hall.

Now, the average adult, according to this website consumes (at 3,000 caleries per day) 321 pounds, 4 ounces of food. In one YEAR.

Or, adjusting to 1,000 people (the rough amount on the campus, give or take) that's 160 tons per year. Whateley goes through that in a MONTH. With 16 tons extra.

So, yeah, these kids eat, A LOT.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Diane Castle — 2011-07-04T20:01:31-00:00

Rats. And I was so sure there were snake machines next to the regular vending machines.

Diane

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Laudator — 2011-07-04T20:12:13-00:00

Diane Castle wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 21:01

Rats. And I was so sure there were snake machines next to the regular vending machines.

Diane

Mongoose will be saddened

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Odin — 2011-07-04T20:15:51-00:00

curiousreader wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 15:03

Well we know the Workshops recycle. It's been mentioned a few times but especially in Tensai's Greasy and medley story.
We also know the sewers are quite ... unusual.
And I seem to remember a junk yard for things that are too dangerous to recycle OR throw away....

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

kd7mvs — 2011-07-04T20:51:36-00:00

So, given recording food consumption for ongoing research, students eating off-campus or otherwise off the grid, such as Ayla's meals on wheels, would be required to report their food intake to Food Services for inclusion in their data? Kind of a required after action report.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Sir Lee — 2011-07-04T22:37:53-00:00

kd7mvs wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 17:51

Oh, I'm sure that the health services would love having that data, but I think they are aware that it's just not going to happen. I mean, report every candy and cookie you eat? Every pizza you order? Not happening. These are teenagers, not volunteers for an experiment.

The Crystal Hall control gives the nutrition experts a reasonable sample of the students appetites and whether they aren't eating too badly. Kinda like a mother checking what the kids are eating at dinner.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

kraftykeltic — 2011-07-05T00:20:02-00:00

[quote title=E. E. Nalley wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 15:41]Ok, perhaps I wasn't as clear as I should have been. So, with a tip of the hat to Sir Lee (even Slyboots has to eat) but yes that should be SNACK machines, let me break this down a bit further.

For ease of reference, all the following measurements will be U.S. Standard Measure.

Sysco Food service brings 1 53 foot trailer twice a week. This trailer has 22 pallets on it (two foot by 40 inches by six feet) and, on average each pallet has 1 ton of food on it. That's 44 tons of bulk food every week, JUST for the Crystal Hall.

I do not wish to be difficult but the standard pallet size is 48inches by 40 inches. The inside of a standard 53 foot trailer will hold a max 30 pallets. Usually two pallets across by 3o pallets in a row. The inside of the trailer is just wide enough to put two 48 inch pallets side by side and they will not slide. If you slide four tons of pallets 16 inches into the side of the trailer they will go though the side.

You are all trying to make the measurement of student and faculty consumption too complex. The only variables needed are input food, waste food and who ate. The food can be measured by lbs, tons or any other measurement. What type of food it is and how it is prepared is secondary.

Outside the measurement area are outside deliveries, or students going out to eat. They add to the data set and make it more reliable by not being a part of it at times.

Still measured are the burger bars and other fast food items on campus, even if they are charged separately, as student IDs are used.

If you know who ate, what was consumed and what was waste for each meal, you can figure out who ate what and the amount they ate over the course of a semester.

Things that are already known are the menus for the meals and the amounts prepared. You do not worry about what is waste unless there are complaints that there were not enough of something, and you show an increase in waste for the meal.

Variations, on a by meal basis will tend to even out over time and the data set becomes more reliable, and you will be able to figure out who ate.

Also, people who do not eat in one of the monitored eateries would not skew the data, as they add to the accuracy of the data set by not being included in parts of it.

Faculty eat mostly in the faculty dining hall. They may also be included in the measurement system as some are mutants, and can be a part of the data set.

Making things too complex, defeats the purpose of the data collection, system.

Just my thinking on it.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

E. E. Nalley — 2011-07-05T01:44:53-00:00

kraftykeltic wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 20:20

You are all trying to make the measurement of student and faculty consumption too complex. The only variables needed are input food, waste food and who ate. The food can be measured by lbs, tons or any other measurement. What type of food it is and how it is prepared is secondary.

Not to put too fine a point on it, I suppose the researchers are doing something similar. Perhaps it's totally different. That's not my point. MY point is to answer the questions on why the swipes and, later on, give an example of how large the logistics tale of the school is.

If there is over thinking going on here, it's not the authors (TINCC) doing it...

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

XaltatunOfAcheron — 2011-07-05T01:49:12-00:00

kraftykeltic wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 18:20

E. E. Nalley wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 15:41

I do not wish to be difficult but the standard pallet size is 48inches by 40 inches. The inside of a standard 53 foot trailer will hold a max 30 pallets. Usually two pallets across by 3o pallets in a row. The inside of the trailer is just wide enough to put two 48 inch pallets side by side and they will not slide. If you slide four tons of pallets 16 inches into the side of the trailer they will go though the side.

You are all trying to make the measurement of student and faculty consumption too complex. The only variables needed are input food, waste food and who ate. The food can be measured by lbs, tons or any other measurement. What type of food it is and how it is prepared is secondary.

I quite agree. Back when I was learning the data processing business I heard an interesting story. It seems that a company put in a hugely complex system for accounting for jobs run. It dragged the system down something awful. Eventually they ripped it out and went to counting cards in and weighing paper out. (I did say it was a while ago, right?)

You don't need to track what individuals are eating - that's just an invitation for the students to mess with the system. After all, the other meaning of swipe is: "whose card did you swipe?" You're talking about high school students, and a lot of them are going to go to the dark side (not to mention the ones going to the dork side, who might actually be more of a problem.)

Modern (i.e. Lean) manufacturing practice would seem to suggest assigning a staffer to see what vanishes before the last students get to it, and what's left over, and using that to adjust the menus. I see no reason why you'd need 18 staffers to do that.

Now, if you're going to charge for the food on a per-meal basis, that's a different situation. Then you've got a reason to collect the raw data and you might as well analyze it. But that's not what E.E. was saying happened.

Xaltatun

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

kd7mvs — 2011-07-05T03:08:37-00:00

On who's using the cards, I'd say that might actively self-police, after all if they cooperate food comes from board and room fees, if they don't cooperate they start charging at meals. If I was an energizer I'd have real incentive to lean on anyone fucking around with the system, because I can't afford to pay for my meals, not no way, no how.

Considering that those who have the most to benefit from cooperation are among the toughest kids on campus, cooperation might have a chance.

Now on the staffing to check quantities. On e person can monitor food consumption in regard to there being not enough for everyone, or too much. Figuring out how much of what you have to order to prepare the various meals is slightly more labor intensive. Automation helps, because you can plug in "three servings of x for 500" and it will pull up what goes into a serving of x, then multiply those figures by 1500 to determine the quantities required, and then add those into the other finished dishes so they know how much flour they need, how many onions, apples, leeks, etc., for a given period of time.

Also in regard to student cooperation. It's made pretty damn clear to the students that part of what happens at Whateley is research into mutant physiology, and that research offsets a number of their expenses. Powers testing, powers lab, dietary studies, the high cost of tuition/board and room being offset by their cooperating. Consider that the social culture at Whateley was established by Dr. Alexander, who had no qualms about being a hardass and had people like Cagliostro on staff backing him up, the corporate culture that developed might just be a bit likelier to cooperate than some would credit; Whateley doesn't coddle people.

You'll always have some who don't cooperate, but I think on the whole it would work. And those who don't cooperate would find themselves in detention.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

wyrm — 2011-07-05T07:50:08-00:00

Sir Lee wrote on Mon, 04 July 2011 19:22

But I suppose having a "cashier" at the end of the buffet to take note of what student took would achieve two goals:
a) Curb waste, both in the kitchen (some waste is expected, but if 200 kg meat leave the pantry and only 100 kg is actually consumed, there's something wrong...) and by the students (who will be less inclined to take lots of stuff they don't really want).

Nothing wrong at all. Jann's been sneaking snacks for Tennyo!

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

kd7mvs — 2011-07-05T12:32:17-00:00

Just a thought that I had while not falling asleep last night. The security IDs issued to the Wild Bunch are biometrically linked such that they wouldn't work for anyone else. Why ever wouldn't they use that same technology for student IDs? They use it for the beads that allow access to the underground areas, after all! You can't swipe someone elses card, it won't work for you.

edit: OK, it might work for Duplex, maybe. Depending upon how thorough her mimicry is.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Odin — 2011-07-06T00:27:34-00:00

Well I do not suppose it matters but here is my two cents.
There might be different sized trailers and pallets in the WU, not to mention that not everything there is the same size on the inside as on the outside.
Also there was mention that some of that data was being collected for scientific purposes. So they can publish papers about odd nutritional requirements for certain GSD cases or perhaps notice, just as an example, whether Avatars consume more Beta Carotene than Baselines or that Exemplars of 4 and above require fewer trace minerals etc. They don't want to get too intrusive but hope for hints that may point the way for further and more intensive research.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Avatard — 2011-07-06T23:10:27-00:00

I would have to say that ANY data on muant physiology would be important. Every mutant is unique (so far) in some way yet there are still specialists in mutant physiology. We can guess that while there is a huge amount of variation between mutants of the same trait there is also still a baseline for that trait that can be infered from such data. Think of how many CENTURIES of data we have on the baseline human body that we are still arguing about today, mutants just throw another wrench into that machine.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

XaltatunOfAcheron — 2011-07-07T00:08:25-00:00

Avatard wrote on Wed, 06 July 2011 17:10

Most of it eminently ignorable. I mean, how many people in the medical community today really care about the four humors? Or the blending and bloodline theories of inheritance?

Xaltatun

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

kd7mvs — 2011-07-07T00:27:29-00:00

XaltatunOfAcheron wrote on Wed, 06 July 2011 17:08

Avatard wrote on Wed, 06 July 2011 17:10

Most of it eminently ignorable. I mean, how many people in the medical community today really care about the four humors? Or the blending and bloodline theories of inheritance?

Xaltatun

How you plan on analyzing something determines if the data is 'good' or not. If you are set up to sort nuts and bolts, then any screws or nails you come across get tossed to the side as non-relevant; if you are supposedly sorting fasteners, this is wrong, because they are fasteners, unless you plan on sorting for screws and then nails after you get done with the bolts and nuts.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

khade — 2011-07-07T04:20:00-00:00

The humors can be looked at as historical elements of psychological profiles, which is useful for the medical profession, or some aspects of it at least.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Anvildude — 2011-08-27T04:56:07-00:00

And bloodline tracing allows for historical research on genetic inheritance. It's not so much that they were doing things unscientifically- it's more that they were just, mislabeled.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

XaltatunOfAcheron — 2011-08-27T15:01:37-00:00

Anvildude wrote on Fri, 26 August 2011 22:56

And bloodline tracing allows for historical research on genetic inheritance. It's not so much that they were doing things unscientifically- it's more that they were just, mislabeled.

But that's genealogy, not genetics. Genealogy has not gone out of fashion.

Xaltatun

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

khade — 2011-08-28T04:30:35-00:00

It hasn't gone out of fashion, but the word Genealogy has. It's now generally known as Family History instead. No idea why.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

Cockle — 2011-08-28T12:53:43-00:00

I think because genealogy is just the family trees, whereas family history encompases finding out about how ones ancestors lived, not just when, which is much more interesting.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

kd7mvs — 2011-08-28T15:10:29-00:00

Right, Family History tries to get to know your ancestors, not just compile dates. Not sure how much that's LDS influenced nomenclature.

Re: Whateley Tuition & Expenses

thejackle123 — 2011-09-23T10:57:30-00:00

oljak.eru wrote on Tue, 10 February 2009 18:43

My theory is that sometime in the future someone invents a time machine and uses it for getting anti-matter from the early stages of the universe to use as fuel.