| Re: Jade [message #54659 is a reply to message #1676 ] |
Wed, 29 February 2012 20:01   |
 khade
Messages: 1597
Registered: May 2011
Location: Rockies |
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Tennyo started out as an Omni-Channeler, which is a mutant variant that tends to burn out instantly, due to their extremely high access to all sorts of energy. She survived, but burned out that mutation completely, due to the mind control stuff, the forced activation of her mutation, and the established link to the Star Stalker. In essence, Billy the mutant is dead, long live Billie the accidentally freed alien weapon in disguise.
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| Re: Jade [message #54683 is a reply to message #1676 ] |
Wed, 29 February 2012 21:38 |
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Sir Lee
Messages: 3072
Registered: May 2005
Location: São Paulo, Brazil |
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Well... let's see:
The vision she had in the Grove was revealed by a magical being that recognized her as the Star Stalker. Doesn't seem like a result of "super-hypnosis" to me. Furthermore, while I'm not familiar with the anime, what she was doing in that vision doesn't seem consistent to whatever a "space pirate" does.
Another useful data point is the attempt on her sanity by Overckock and Make via Stygian. Stygian actually brought back the shades of people who the Star Stalker had caused to die. I very much doubt he has the ability to bring back shades of dead *fictional* beings. So that seems to validate that set of memories too.
It has been stated by the authors that the Star Stalker is an archetype in the Whateley Universe, and the Tenchi Muyo creators were probably unconsciously drawing on it when creating Ryoko. The tail apparently was their own idea, though.
By the way, we have no evidence besides Tennyo's own recovered memories that the Star Stalker actually looked EXACTLY like Tennyo. It could very well be that there are significant differences, but the Ryoko template was "close enough" for the Stalker's purposes. Self-image in memories is a tricky thing: you tend to remember yourself as you look now, not how you looked then.
The beings/entities who recognized the Star Stalker are mystical in nature, and likely used more than the mundane five senses to identify them.
Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
--
Sent from my Bugs Industries® bPhone™
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| Re: Jade [message #54686 is a reply to message #1676 ] |
Wed, 29 February 2012 21:50 |
khade
Messages: 1597
Registered: May 2011
Location: Rockies |
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As I understand the Anime, the 'tail' is actually part of her clothes, telekinetically moved as if it it were a tail.
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| Re: Jade [message #54691 is a reply to message #54683 ] |
Wed, 29 February 2012 22:46 |
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tristra
Messages: 243
Registered: February 2012
Location: North GA |
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I agree, the vision in the grove was totally Star Stalker.
The dreams and feelings before that are on more rocky ground to me.
Ryoko was a space pirate and was captured on earth after a mad rampage where she had destroyed entire worlds and she was truly considered a demon, so it could be ether or.
Where did the Stygian thing happen? I don't think I have read that.
I had considered the possibility of a psychic parallel basing the fiction on the real. but in the spirit of not discounting anything till proven nonviable I still wonder. If this is true, then there is possibly a gem out there somewhere or that she will eventually be able to create that will both boost her powers and help refine her control to perfection, possibly even allow her to summon elementals.
She may at some point start to sense it if she gets close to it.
Kinda scary.
True The star stalker may look much like Tenyo, without the tail. Or it took that form because it was more relate-able to Billie who it feels will understand it and accept it. Much like Ryoko I feel the star stalker may be sad very lonely and misunderstood, it's clear from the flashback she hasn't got the same feelings as a human but she does feel something, and her greatest fear is the one thing her personality is easy at doing. She fears being alone yet she by her nature is like a wild fire and few want to brave it. Just as Nikki teaches the Queen equality of all life and a new kind of temper in her judgment. I think Billie will eventually teach the star stalker a deep compassion and the ability to truly trust and depend on others.
I will have to get around to reading some of the other threads and tracking some more story bits.
I want to know the star stalkers story some see her as a hero and guardian, others as a great destroyer. I get the feeling that she was nether.
Most likely just a person caught in the middle that made the choices she felt was right.
Interesting about the tail, I was always under the impression that she hid it, but now that you mention it she didn't have it in her battle outfit did she.
Good point.
-----Yes I'm picky, but only in the pursuit of curious tidbits. -----
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| Re: Jade [message #54701 is a reply to message #1676 ] |
Thu, 01 March 2012 00:46 |
khade
Messages: 1597
Registered: May 2011
Location: Rockies |
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I think the Star Stalker isn't a person, or wasn't at least, it was a weapon designed by who knows what, but apparently designed to kill GOOs that just happened to use a female form in it's camouflage.
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| Re: Jade [message #54703 is a reply to message #54701 ] |
Thu, 01 March 2012 01:47 |
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tristra
Messages: 243
Registered: February 2012
Location: North GA |
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| khade wrote on Wed, 29 February 2012 21:46 | I think the Star Stalker isn't a person, or wasn't at least, it was a weapon designed by who knows what, but apparently designed to kill GOOs that just happened to use a female form in it's camouflage.
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Interesting idea.
that might suggest that it was made by the Sidhe, but with Nikki's worry about Billie and the reaction of the Grove if that is true then they lost control of there weapon some how. Which still puts her in the middle for some reason. Possibly a third faction that hasn't been covered. and what about the Kitsune?
If it was telling the truth which I think it was in its own mischievous way then she is a hero and a protector of some that fall under a similar order to the Fae. I doubt it is as simple as east VS west. And her memories seem to show a scifi mot mystic setting. that raises a lot of questions.
I think she came from the universe before this one, and had a hand in its destruction, but also in preserving or transitioning certain parts to this universe.
her powers and limits seem to play by a different set of rules all the way down to the sub atomic level. so she is beyond the understanding and control of the others.
even her DNA is an unimaginable structure.
[Updated on: Thu, 01 March 2012 01:49]
-----Yes I'm picky, but only in the pursuit of curious tidbits. -----
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| Re: Jade [message #54704 is a reply to message #1676 ] |
Thu, 01 March 2012 01:51 |
khade
Messages: 1597
Registered: May 2011
Location: Rockies |
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One thing that you might not have seen yet, is that the people responsible for keeping the Star Stalker under control have apparently realized it's missing, maybe.
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| Re: Jade [message #54706 is a reply to message #54686 ] |
Thu, 01 March 2012 03:15 |
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Sojiro
Messages: 1653
Registered: November 2011 |
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| khade wrote on Thu, 01 March 2012 03:50 | the 'tail' is actually part of her clothes, telekinetically moved as if it it were a tail.
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This. The tail is just a fashion accessory she occasionally wears. Most notably, she does not have it when she's naked during the open air bath scene.
| tristra | The thing I want to see worked out is what part is Billie remembering from the super hypnosis and what part is he remembering from the star stalker.
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Tennyo has no memories from Ryoko. She occasionally behaves like her (because she held Ryoko as a role model and because she was told to do just that) but she doesn't have memories from her. Going into the rafters for example is not tied to any memory, it's just somethings he does. Wishing for a gem on her wrist was more of a "ha, if I was really Ryoko I could use that to escape!" and not remembering that she used to have one and missing it.
All actual memories are from the Star Stalker.
Since Ryoko was based on the archetype of the Star Stalker, trying to be like Ryoko also meant trying to be like the Star Stalker, which is how she managed to "catch" it. Then her appearance did not need to be even close to the Star Stalker's original one, as she was consciously trying to become like Ryoko rather than this entity she had never heard of, she got a BIT that fit Ryoko's form.
That's how BITs usually work, you think you ought to look like this, so you do.
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| Re: Jade [message #54709 is a reply to message #54706 ] |
Thu, 01 March 2012 03:54 |
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tristra
Messages: 243
Registered: February 2012
Location: North GA |
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Sojiro, I love your passion.
But you talk in absolutes when there are things left unconsidered.
While I talk in hypotheticals (Most will be wrong but there great food for thought).
Yes you may be right, it may all be the star stalker. there is nothing from what I have read that said it is not.
but at the same time there is no solid evidence that says they are all from the star stalker and not from Billie trying to remember everything she knows about Ryoko.
as far as wishing for the gem being just Billies mind wandering to wishful thinking. I don't think so. because if it was she would not have asked "where did that come from" after she thought it.
This suggests that it was treated like a more personal memory, and gave rise to the possibility in my mind of two sets of real memories and one set of not so real. I maybe and probably am wrong, but I feel it is still worth thinking about till something proves it wrong.
you may be right about the form not having to be the star stalkers, but when they joined Bill recognized the star stalker presumably in the form of ryoko So:
1)he saw what was convent for him at the time,
2)The star stalker took Ryoko's form so he would accept her,
3)Or the star stalker looks like Ryoko.
All are possibilities according to the information I have seen to this point.
they can not all be right, but they also can not all be wrong.
So why not consider them all?
BITs don't always give you what you want, they give you the clearest image you have.
Take Thuban for example he is an exemplar with a BIT but he did not want to be a dragon or see himself as a dragon.
He just admired them and saw them as an ideal.
For the most part he still sees himself as a lizard and nothing more. Jade I think sees the truth though and is opening his eyes. one day he will have his own pearl of wisdom to clutch in his claws but not till he sees himself for what he is.
To settle a odd debate about eastern dragons, I wonder ho many toes Thuban has.
Even Fubar has a BIT, fat lot of good that did for him. The concept of the BIT, who has one and who dies not and what they are is just as gray as the very concept of Avatar. Nothing is certain till they show themselves, then they are still taken case by case.
-----Yes I'm picky, but only in the pursuit of curious tidbits. -----
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| Re: Jade [message #54710 is a reply to message #1676 ] |
Thu, 01 March 2012 04:04 |
khade
Messages: 1597
Registered: May 2011
Location: Rockies |
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I think the toes wouldn't actually answer much, other then what type of dragon he looks like, if I remember correctly, royal Chinese dragons have 5, non royal have 4, and I can't remember what the immature Japanese dragon has, but I know they don't look lizardy at all when mature, they look like huge pigeons.
Oh, and I don't think he's actually turning into a dragon, unless exemplar is more powerful then I thought or he has other powers.
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| Re: Jade [message #54713 is a reply to message #54710 ] |
Thu, 01 March 2012 04:58 |
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tristra
Messages: 243
Registered: February 2012
Location: North GA |
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The toes thing tells what part of China or other surrounding Asian area including Japan it comes from.
The Japanese argue that while the dragon traveled west it lost some of it's power and gained toes as it took to the land.
The Chinese argue that it started with 5 toes and as it went east it lost strength and toes.(Think I quoted that right enough)
Knowing Where Thuban is from and how many toes he has could give a clue to who is right in the end.
Doubt the authors have planned to cove that little obscure tidbit though.
Yes the 5 would be mainly Imperial china (If I am remembering right, Not a scholar in the subject just a collector of random info)
As far as whether he is turning into a real dragon.
Think about his image of dragons, then think about his form.
Then add his abilities.
take human form,
change size,
to do that impossible thing with the size of things.
All fairly dragon like. Not very lizard like.
Powers in this world seem to have a poetic flare for the dramatic so Dragon just seems to fit more to me.
Add to that his striving for power and it is much like tales of young dragons on there path to wisdom.
It's all a little vague and out of reach but this is a school that has a place like the Grove, a destroyer of worlds, a great old one, and a Sidhe Queen. (The last 3 under the same roof, when the lovecraft room is in the right place)
When you compare it to the rest of the things going on the odds of Thuban learning to take the form of a full dragon and gaining flight as a third form is pretty good.
And Thuban does believe in dragons hidden in the wilderness and holy places, perhaps he believes it because part of him knows it's true.
-----Yes I'm picky, but only in the pursuit of curious tidbits. -----
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