Home » The Crystal Hall » Story Feedback » Ayla 9: Ayla and the Scientist (New Ayla)
| Re: Ayla 9: Ayla and the Scientist [message #62907 is a reply to message #51709 ] |
Mon, 06 August 2012 04:40   |
 |
 mittfh
Messages: 764
Registered: May 2011
Location: Kenilworth, UK |
|
 
|
|
Thinking about it, Ayla could be at least partially in control of the sim, but aside from all the insane preparation, there's another main difference: it's no-win from the start. Given Ayla doesn't appear to be physically present anywhere on the battlefield, and (if the story given his killbot gave is true for the purposes of the simulation) is undetectable by any means, then he's holding all the cards.
Control of the sensor array allows him to see exactly what each team member is doing at every single point in time, and can send troops to intercept them.
The holographic tunnel with troops waiting behind the scenes guaranteed that at least one of the agents would die.
He's completely undetectable by any team member, so it's impossible for them to find him and kill him (the usual means of a team victory).
-oOo-
Given the nature of these Dark Phoenix simulations, it's probably just as well Chou isn't on the team any more, as there'd be no way she could win unless the software could simulate her being filled with the Tao. However, a Dark Phoenix scenario with the other former team member could be interesting by virtue of having no fewer than three Mythos entities participating!
|
|
|
| Re: Ayla 9: Ayla and the Scientist [message #62910 is a reply to message #62894 ] |
Mon, 06 August 2012 05:22 |
 |
Grey Shadow
Messages: 44
Registered: February 2012
Location: Australia |
|
|
|
[quote title=Sir Lee wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 12:15]| Grey Shadow wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 10:13 |
| Close to the end of Chapter 13 | Suddenly, Lancer convulsed. At the same time, massive bloody holes appeared over the hearts of both MCO agents. A moment later, the loud cracks from three sniper rifles rang out. Lancer fell, and everyone could see there was a large hole in his back right over his heart.
|
I would count this as "has killed Lancer."
|
I completely forgot about Hank until I left for work.
|
|
|
| Re: Ayla 9: Ayla and the Scientist [message #62915 is a reply to message #62879 ] |
Mon, 06 August 2012 07:42 |
 |
Sojiro
Messages: 1652
Registered: November 2011 |
|
|
|
| Rabiata wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:30 |
My first thought was that the sim is pretty skewed in favor of Phase.
|
Well, duh.
Skewing matches against Team Kimba by giving them objectives that are harder for their power set than "kill everything" is something you'll see more of.
Bringing them in the sim circuit only to throw trivial waste of times at them is not productive. They have to challenge Team Kimba in order to be doing their job, and unless they make them face Mimeo or Deicide every other sim, they'll have to play on various elements to make things "unfair" so that the match can actually be fair and require TK to use actual skill to win.
| Rabiata wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:30 | An empowerment out of nowhere
|
whoawhoawhoa
That's the most basic element of a Dark Phoenix sim, empowering one member that goes dark. Tennyo didn't get that (but do note they highballed everything she had) and Fey didn't get much of a power boost, but that is because they don't need it at all. Jade got empowered way beyond "people can't read me".
And also note that since that was a doomphasebot, she might have been lying. The reason they couldn't read Phase's mind or emotion or ki might be because it was a robot.
| Rabiata wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:30 | plus a level of preparation that might be too expensive even for Ayla?
|
Meh, a billionaire can do a lot of things. Someone like Phase going on such a crucial mission could have gotten other people to invest in this too, so maybe some of the money came from Chessmaster for example.
If Phase got empowered the way she said she did, her capability to make money would have been considerably boosted too.
| Rabiata wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:30 | Installing all sort of equipment in the school without the staff noticing?
|
Well, duh. We've seen that done over a dozen times. This isn't that uncommon. In a Dark Phoenix scenario it isn't even remotely impressive.
Sensors are significantly less conspicuous than secret labs which have to draw power and receive raw materials and vent various things. Yet devisors still manage to conceal a LOT of those.
Yeah, that was nothing.
| Rabiata wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:30 | It looks like the sim jockeys want to make TK lose at all cost
|
Well, duh.
| Rabiata wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:30 | even by making the sim totally unrealistic 
|
That's not even remotely unrealistic.
As a matter of fact, I was expecting almost everything we've seen before I read it, so the story did give us the mean to see most of that coming. One of the scenario that was expected (several people even predicted it in this very thread) was Phase allying himself (willingly or not) with his family, which would make the sort of costs shown here insignificant. Note that as far as we can tell, it may be what happened ; if Phase had gotten in league with the Goodkinds because she had decided that Fey&Tennyo had way too much chance to end humankind, she could have sent Phasebots for his security while claiming to be empowered to both sap TK's resolve and cover up the lack of humanity coming off the drone.
| Rabiata wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:30 | Considering your sneaky idea:
Yes, the sim system could in theory be abused to keep people imprisoned, like in the Matrix. Scary thought... 
|
Given that Ayla can instantly tell she's in a sim from the lack of feeling in the nose and around the eyes (since the suit doesn't cover those parts) this is unlikely.
Side note on the "Ayla couldn't have been that effective a tactician, she must have had help from Bardue" idea. Ayla has more than enough money to hire a military advisor that's as qualified (if not more) than Bardue. If she hired an army of powered-armor minion, she definitely got herself a commanding officer to match, and she'd want that person to be as skilled as possible. Given that Bardue was not exactly hired for being one of the better tactical mind on the planet, having him play that character and support Phase to the best of his abilities would have been less effective what Phase could do.
So even if Bardue did handle the strategy in this sim, that doesn't even count as the sim people skewing things in favor of Ayla (not that they didn't do that in other ways, a Dark Phoenix sim is supposed to be skewed in favor of the rogue member).
|
|
|
| Re: Ayla 9: Ayla and the Scientist [message #62916 is a reply to message #62880 ] |
Mon, 06 August 2012 08:12 |
|
Sojiro
Messages: 1652
Registered: November 2011 |
|
|
|
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | Doesn't change the fact it's essentially a computer game. They can't really die and going out with a bang gives you some training after all. The only reason Fey would do that is because she thinks she can win through surrendering. I mean it's not like this is real life.
|
In order for the sims to be effective as training, they have to treat it as if it were real life, even if it isn't. Your objection is therefore completely moot.
If they want a minute or two of brainless brawling, they can get that anytime. Ruining the conclusion of an exercise because just to wrassle is stupid and counterproductive.
You do bring up a good point, though. Ending the sim just after the surrender is announced (and by a single member of the team, too!) rather than waiting until they had actually surrendered to Phase's demands (murder+oath) prevented TK to try to fake a surrender. That was not a good idea.
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | Well, I guess it makes sense that they fell for it, considering it should have been impossible.
|
Wait, what? No. This is definitely possible, easy to do, even. Real world level of technology (for the remote control) combined witht he Whateley-verse demonstrated ability to produce androids with smooth movements and power-armor shows that it is far from difficult to do this, especially for someone with as much money as Ayla.
They just didn't expect this because he had never done something like that and it is not the sort of thing they'd do.
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | How did they turn the tunnel in a holo projector room when Ayla was just supposed to have gone Dark Phoenix. This takes days to prepare.
|
Is it supposed to be a question? I'm going to assume it is one.
1) You have no reason to assume that Phase's turning is recent, it oculd have happened months ago and now the time of reckoning has come, Dark Phase is ready to end Team Kimba
2) This may have been done by Phase before she turned Dark
3) This may have been done by someone else and simply being reused by Phase
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | And if it takes days TK wouldn't just run into the Trap Whateley academy.
|
Even if it takes days, that doesn't mean that it is blatantly obvious! Many labs and other lairs were built completely in secrets inside the tunnels. This is no different. There is no reason for the construction of that trap to alert TK.
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | That's nothing some powerarmor jocks can built in 20 minutes.
|
Actually, it is.
If there are rooms on the other side, demolish the walls then plant portable hologram projectors.
And that's with nothing specifically impressive or beyond baseline level.
With some help with a properly prepared baseline mage, bringing the walls down would have been trivial, same thing with Phase and some flickering tools (foam bombs are good for this) or this mutant who works in the private sector to dig holes quickly (he does take jobs for reasonable amounts of money, you know).
So we have multiple ways it could have been built ahead of time or during the sim.
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | The same with Phase playing supervillian and using a doombot. Why didn't they guess that?
|
This is the exact point I explained to you in the previous post and you even agreed that it made sense. Why are you bringing this up again?
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | Why did tennyo bother with using the sword and didn't just blast everyone in radius?
|
Why does Tennyo ever bother with using that sword? Why scatter her efforts when the only important target was Phase and right in front of her? Would have it mattered even if she had done that?
Answering those questions will answer yours.
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | Why did they use chaka as distraction
|
They did explain this one in details.
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | and didn't use Tenyyos AOE damage abilities to cull the jocks by zapping around and using mini nukes on everything moving?
|
You are missing several important points here. First, you are assuming that those jocks were the threat, they had already been dealt with. They were running from the rest of Phase's force. Secondly, using that sort of firepower would have made her lethal to the people she was trying to protect ; becoming radioactive can have some serious drawbacks.
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | Seriously the only one that really rocked was Jade.
|
Agreed. Having to hold back to avoid killing the MCO agents prevented Tennyo from doing much (although she did destroy the Crystal Hall!). Lancer was a good leader, but not a match for Phase and her team of advisors, and in a fight he got owned before doing anything. As a priority target Fey was hammered quickly to prevent her from doing too much.
But Generator was able to shine. She really outdid herself in this sim (although in a battle of information where the main physical threat comes from power-armor jocks, she is at a considerable advantage, so the sim was heavily skewer toward her)
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | The whole situation made no sense
|
Only to people with a limited understanding of what was going on.
As a tactic buff who knows a thing or two about those things, and someone who is very nitpicky about details and insists on stories making sense before anything else, I found that this chapter made perfect sense.
If a lot of reader thought that it was absurd, then maybe the story was unclear, or more confusing than I thought, but being nonsensical is not the problem here.
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | and Team Kimba didn't really consider that Ayla would have thought of their options.
|
Now you are joking. I odn't believe you are saying that seriously when we saw them saying EXPLICITLY that they were expecting Phase to have thought of their options. Many times. And they even based their decisions on that.
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | Why didn't they just put together the most unlikely escape options I could think of within a minute and decide with a coin toss?
|
Those options would have been unlikely because they were bad options with a very low chance of success in the first place.
This is something people often miss when they think about plans against someone who can think several moves ahead.
Using overtures that are in none of the chess books and then choosing your moves at random when fighting an excellent chess player will get you slaughtered. Because you are choosing nothing but bad moves which don't give you the advantage.
In their situation, going straight to their biggest advantage and let as little time as possible for Phase's plan to unfold with few tricks to be exploited by the opponent is a good idea.
Sure, it isn't the only solution tat works. But it's a good one.
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | That's what I would have done if confronted with a mastermind like Ayla.
|
Yeah, I can guess how that would have ended.
As a pretty good tactician that is used to predicting most of what my opponents will try to do, I have had some try this against me. That didn't really worry me. If you anticipate all the good moves the opponents might take and then he decides to do something stupid that gives him little or no advantage, you can just keep reinforcing your position until he defeats himself.
[Updated on: Mon, 06 August 2012 09:24]
|
|
|
| Re: Ayla 9: Ayla and the Scientist [message #62917 is a reply to message #62883 ] |
Mon, 06 August 2012 08:26 |
|
Sojiro
Messages: 1652
Registered: November 2011 |
|
|
|
| Niknokitueu wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 00:24 | | dpragan wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:13 | Why did Fey surrender? Probably because the MCO agents where killed and their one method of "Clearing their name" wet down in flames.
That and there are snipers.
|
Also, she believes that there is some aspect of Sidhe vow that Phase is not aware of.
|
Given the way she reacted and the fact that it wouldn't change the situation for her teammates, this is extremely unlikely to be true.
No, it's like dpragan said, Fey's team is "checkmate", and she can see this. Phase has demonstrated that she can launch a missile barrage of sufficient firepower to bring her barriers down and can focus enough fire on Tennyo to keep her from doing anything. If she can see how Phase can destroy them all with 100% chance of success Phase herself definitely can, and the way she presented it there is a non-null chance of siding with Ayla being better than total destruction.
| Niknokitueu wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 00:24 | Hopefully this will indeed be an end to the Dark Phoenix scenarios
|
Indeed!
| Niknokitueu wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 00:24 | Whatever else happens, I believe it is now Thursday night, which means Ayla gets his injection tomorrow!
|
next chapter is 14, we've known it' would happen then for some time now.
| Niknokitueu wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 00:24 | Loved the story, but can't help feel it would have been better as a noodle incident (apart from the awesome Jade 'Nanoha Takamachi' scene, which would have to have been seen to be believed).
|
I feel that way about Fey's simulation. They could even have used it to hype up how evil and effective Phase's plan was! Instead we had a very stupid justification for going with a non-plan. So I can understand your feelings here.
But this one? I am happy to have gotten it in full, so I don't share your opinion.
| Niknokitueu wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 00:24 | Oh, and Jade didn't need to use the nanowire to control the guns after she used it to cut them loose: the guns were covered in glitter, which presumably could have been incorporated into the same charge. Many thousands of grasping hands...
|
Yes, but the nanowires were useful to cut it loose in the first place and it is easier to manipulate something with those.
| dpragan wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 04:17 | I don't think Bardue will be Truly Irate, after all admitting defeat is sometimes the only option. Or more properly, outcome.
|
I definitely agree with you here, but I don't think he is often truly angry either. So there might not be much of a difference from TK's PoV anyway...
[Updated on: Mon, 06 August 2012 08:27]
|
|
|
| Re: Ayla 9: Ayla and the Scientist [message #62918 is a reply to message #62906 ] |
Mon, 06 August 2012 08:45 |
|
Sojiro
Messages: 1652
Registered: November 2011 |
|
|
|
| WarClub wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:52 | What is the freaking point of putting TK through dark phoenix sim after dark phoenix sim? It might make sense for an established team or a bunch of seniors, but not so much for newbies.
|
Given that they ARE going to stick together, it makes as much sense for them as for a team of seniors.
| WarClub wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:52 | My theory? The sim guys want TK to self-destruct, and are trying to apply stress and magnify interpersonal issues.
|
hahahahaha
No. No way.
| WarClub wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:52 | Dark Lancer's going to be last. He gets the grunts as team-mates, with no personal enhancements. Heck of a way to enter the team-on-team Circuit.
|
That idea has some merit, but :
a) this isn't a Dark Phoenix sim at all
b) this is no different than a generic match between both teams since Hank can side with either
| GreenEggs667 wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 09:46 | The worst thing about this chapter is the time Phase is not doing anything to her foes. Everything you learn in planing combat is hit 1st, hit hardest & then keep hitting. Never let up and let the enemy regroup
|
Wait, what?
That's what Phase did!
She hit hard and first to take Fey out, then she sent her troops to keep them from taking the initiative and forced them to retreat. Then they were running straight for the number one goal which would be where she was most likely o have stationed her force, so there was no reason for her to send anything after the Kimbas who were running toward the trap. That would have alerted them to what was happening and would have split Phase's force while giving TK more options to hurt him.
Regrouping everything to where they were going to hit them with maximum strength was a much better idea.
[Updated on: Mon, 06 August 2012 09:35]
|
|
|
| Re: Ayla 9: Ayla and the Scientist [message #62925 is a reply to message #62897 ] |
Mon, 06 August 2012 09:32 |
|
Sojiro
Messages: 1652
Registered: November 2011 |
|
|
|
| Sir Lee wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 04:21 | On a different note, I found Lancer's inner monologue interesting. He expects to utterly fail at his "Dark Lancer" scenario, because most of his teammates (including Ayla) have some way to kill him. Easily and quickly.
|
Yes, I also found it very interesting! I wasn't expecting him to have such awareness of his limits when he is held in such high esteem by most of the school (including Ayla that keeps saying that he's weaker than Lancer).
| Sir Lee wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 04:21 | It's an interesting counterpoint to Ayla's often-manifested sense of inadequacy, power-wise, as compared to (among others) him.
|
Oh, I hadn't thought of that. That's neat.
| Sir Lee wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 04:21 | But then, we don't know what sort of power-up he would get in the "DarK Lancer" scenario. Perhaps he would get a "Big Red Cheese" template (that is, Superman-level physical strength and speed plus magical resistance)?
|
That's what i wanted to tell him when I read that part. It's not because you don't really have the capability to resist their attack that Dark Lancer won't!
Although I think that if they boost him it'll be more of a defense one than simply jacking his strength up.
| khade wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 06:14 | It looked to me like the fight was set set at least in their sophomore year
|
yes, same thing here.
Since those scenarios are supposed to prepare the team for things that might happen in the future, it makes sense for them to be set in the future. And it is perfectly possible that ll the Dark Phoenix sims we've seen did, it's just that Ayla is the only for who that matters.
| khade wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 06:14 | I also think that they got him to lead it by letting him not use his powers at all in it, and he didn't have to do any of the dirty work.
|
Interesting idea, but that would surprise me. They did mention a threat, and I don't think Ayla would be any more OK with his minions doing the deed.
|
|
|
| Re: Ayla 9: Ayla and the Scientist [message #62927 is a reply to message #62916 ] |
Mon, 06 August 2012 10:33 |
 |
beyogi
Messages: 937
Registered: May 2011
Location: Germany |
|
|
|
| Sojiro wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 14:12 |
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | Well, I guess it makes sense that they fell for it, considering it should have been impossible.
|
Wait, what? No. This is definitely possible, easy to do, even. Real world level of technology (for the remote control) combined witht he Whateley-verse demonstrated ability to produce androids with smooth movements and power-armor shows that it is far from difficult to do this, especially for someone with as much money as Ayla.
They just didn't expect this because he had never done something like that and it is not the sort of thing they'd do.
|
Maybe you're right, but that doesn't explain why they tried to run away when they were in an obvious ambush. Sure, they planned to get to the grove where they'd be sure, but Ayla wouldn't have thought of it at all. I mean hank is supposed to be somekind of tactical genius, but he totally played into aylas plan.
| Sojiro wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 14:12 |
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | How did they turn the tunnel in a holo projector room when Ayla was just supposed to have gone Dark Phoenix. This takes days to prepare.
|
Is it supposed to be a question? I'm going to assume it is one.
1) You have no reason to assume that Phase's turning is recent, it oculd have happened months ago and now the time of reckoning has come, Dark Phase is ready to end Team Kimba
2) This may have been done by Phase before she turned Dark
3) This may have been done by someone else and simply being reused by Phase
|
I assumed that Team Kimba wouldn't just run/teleport into a Killzone. So they must have had no idea that phase was planning anything, which seems bloody unlikely considering Whateley was apparently conquered by Ayla's goons.
I can understand your reasoning, but it seems rather unlikely. Phase can't have prepared this operation for months, or it wouldn't be unexpected.
| Sojiro wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 14:12 |
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | And if it takes days TK wouldn't just run into the Trap Whateley academy.
|
Even if it takes days, that doesn't mean that it is blatantly obvious! Many labs and other lairs were built completely in secrets inside the tunnels. This is no different. There is no reason for the construction of that trap to alert TK.
|
The problem are not the funny traps, killbots whatevers, the problem is that Ayla has somehow managed to surround TK with an army.
| Sojiro wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 14:12 |
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | That's nothing some powerarmor jocks can built in 20 minutes.
|
Actually, it is.
If there are rooms on the other side, demolish the walls then plant portable hologram projectors.
And that's with nothing specifically impressive or beyond baseline level.
With some help with a properly prepared baseline mage, bringing the walls down would have been trivial, same thing with Phase and some flickering tools (foam bombs are good for this) or this mutant who works in the private sector to dig holes quickly (he does take jobs for reasonable amounts of money, you know).
So we have multiple ways it could have been built ahead of time or during the sim.
|
I guess I have to reread the scene, but why didn't sense Chaka their Ki? I thought this Ki sense was a rather unique ability and shouldn't be stopped by some holographic camouflage projections. I don't understand why phase bothered with the whole thing anyway. Seems more like an idiotic supervillian deathtrap chlichee thing.
| Sojiro wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 14:12 |
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | Why did tennyo bother with using the sword and didn't just blast everyone in radius?
|
Why does Tennyo ever bother with using that sword? Why scatter her efforts when the only important target was Phase and right in front of her? Would have it mattered even if she had done that?
Answering those questions will answer yours.
|
Because it's focussed destructive power? Because Tennyo likes to poke things with lightswords? Because she likes to run into obvious traps?
I think it would have mattered considering Tennyo actually packs a punch if she dares to unleash her powers. But she fears colletaral damage that much that she rather lets her teammates die then leave some nuclear contamined fields.
Considering that Fey was out, Tennyo was their remaining heavy hitter and she could have done more. So blasting everything that moved would have solved things. It's better being hunted as a supervillian than being dead after all.
| Sojiro wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 14:12 |
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | Why did they use chaka as distraction
|
They did explain this one in details.
|
It didn't work though. They assumed that phase needed to concentrate her fire power which she didn't. They were totally surrounded and in a trap.
| Sojiro wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 14:12 |
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | and didn't use Tenyyos AOE damage abilities to cull the jocks by zapping around and using mini nukes on everything moving?
|
You are missing several important points here. First, you are assuming that those jocks were the threat, they had already been dealt with. They were running from the rest of Phase's force. Secondly, using that sort of firepower would have made her lethal to the people she was trying to protect ; becoming radioactive can have some serious drawbacks.
|
I wonder if magic can cure radiation sickness. The robots should have been fried though, if she really went nuclear on them. It seems like Tennyo is easily shot down, so I'd use her to deal maximum damage to enemy forces before that happens. It's not like she can die after all.
| Sojiro wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 14:12 |
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | Seriously the only one that really rocked was Jade.
|
Agreed. Having to hold back to avoid killing the MCO agents prevented Tennyo from doing much (although she did destroy the Crystal Hall!). Lancer was a good leader, but not a match for Phase and her team of advisors, and in a fight he got owned before doing anything. As a priority target Fey was hammered quickly to prevent her from doing too much.
But Generator was able to shine. She really outdid herself in this sim (although in a battle of information where the main physical threat comes from power-armor jocks, she is at a considerable advantage, so the sim was heavily skewer toward her)
|
They'd lost after fey was down the first time. I think fey's shield could have done something against the radioactivity which would have allowed Tennyo to use her more destructive abilities.
Hank just should have kept it simple. He underestimated the situation, which I can understand. Nobody could have expected Phase to have hired an army and conquered Whateley.
| Sojiro wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 14:12 |
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | The whole situation made no sense
|
Only to people with a limited understanding of what was going on.
As a tactic buff who knows a thing or two about those things, and someone who is very nitpicky about details and insists on stories making sense before anything else, I found that this chapter made perfect sense.
If a lot of reader thought that it was absurd, then maybe the story was unclear, or more confusing than I thought, but being nonsensical is not the problem here.
|
I didn't mean the story, I meant the setup. Team Kimba essentially teleported into a killzone. They were ambushed before the whole scenario started. It wasn't just phase with death traps, no they'd somehow run into an ambush by phase army. Fey was down before they realized what was going on.
Maybe it's my fault, but I really have a hard time to believe that Ayla could have prepared all of this, surround the rest of TK with her goons and then strike without them having an idea of what is going on. Hank is pretty good at tactics and Unga Dunga is supposed to be a tactical genius. Billie isn't stupid either. But they had zero idea something wrong was happening at all. Which seems somewhat strange considering the only npc's were the MCO goons.I think, or did I miss something again...
[quote title=Sojiro wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 14:12]
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | and Team Kimba didn't really consider that Ayla would have thought of their options.
|
Now you are joking. I odn't believe you are saying that seriously when we saw them saying EXPLICITLY that they were expecting Phase to have thought of their options. Many times. And they even based their decisions on that.
[/blockquote]
Yes, they did, but they still ran their run to the safe zone plan, which seems rather foolish to me. I mean if Phase knows they will do that, why do it? If she concentrates her forces then she'd do it where she expects them to run.
| Sojiro wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 14:12 |
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | Why didn't they just put together the most unlikely escape options I could think of within a minute and decide with a coin toss?
|
Those options would have been unlikely because they were bad options with a very low chance of success in the first place.
This is something people often miss when they think about plans against someone who can think several moves ahead.
Using overtures that are in none of the chess books and then choosing your moves at random when fighting an excellent chess player will get you slaughtered. Because you are choosing nothing but bad moves which don't give you the advantage.
In their situation, going straight to their biggest advantage and let as little time as possible for Phase's plan to unfold with few tricks to be exploited by the opponent is a good idea.
Sure, it isn't the only solution tat works. But it's a good one.
|
You're right, that wouldn't work, at least not for more than one action. I thought it would be smarter to choose a random point of attack and try to get through there then to make a run for it. I thought you should attack if ambushed or something like that.
| Sojiro wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 14:12 |
| beyogi wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:43 | That's what I would have done if confronted with a mastermind like Ayla.
|
Yeah, I can guess how that would have ended.
As a pretty good tactician that is used to predicting most of what my opponents will try to do, I have had some try this against me. That didn't really worry me. If you anticipate all the good moves the opponents might take and then he decides to do something stupid that gives him little or no advantage, you can just keep reinforcing your position until he defeats himself.
|
The problem I had with the whole scenario was that they really had no chance. Ayla was totally prepared, they were absolutely unprepared.
I didn't see the whole thing as a chess match, more like a RTS game. The hero party was ambushed, but they needed to fight their way out. They tried the get away option and not the kill all enemies option. I think they'd been better off if they'd tried to take out all enemies.
I kind of hope there will be a rematch. There were some against Tennyo after all. I'd like to know what kind of forces Ayla really had.
Never think to have thought, since the thinking of thoughts is thoughtless thinking.
You think!
|
|
|
| Re: Ayla 9: Ayla and the Scientist [message #62928 is a reply to message #62915 ] |
Mon, 06 August 2012 11:30 |
 |
Rabiata
Messages: 521
Registered: July 2008
Location: Germany |
|
|
|
| Sojiro wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 07:42 |
| Rabiata wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:30 | even by making the sim totally unrealistic
|
That's not even remotely unrealistic.
As a matter of fact, I was expecting almost everything we've seen before I read it, so the story did give us the mean to see most of that coming. One of the scenario that was expected (several people even predicted it in this very thread) was Phase allying himself (willingly or not) with his family, which would make the sort of costs shown here insignificant. Note that as far as we can tell, it may be what happened ; if Phase had gotten in league with the Goodkinds because she had decided that Fey&Tennyo had way too much chance to end humankind, she could have sent Phasebots for his security while claiming to be empowered to both sap TK's resolve and cover up the lack of humanity coming off the drone.
|
You have a point where possible family backup is concerned. But on the topic of 3rd party involvment, I'd expect at least some of the senior teams and the staff to notice what is going on and get involved.
So it should not be TK vs. Phase Army, but something closer to Halloween, where Security and the supers on the staff help fighting the intruders.
| Sojiro wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 07:42 |
| Rabiata wrote on Sun, 05 August 2012 22:30 | Considering your sneaky idea:
Yes, the sim system could in theory be abused to keep people imprisoned, like in the Matrix. Scary thought...
|
Given that Ayla can instantly tell she's in a sim from the lack of feeling in the nose and around the eyes (since the suit doesn't cover those parts) this is unlikely.
|
OK, but how do you get out of the sim if all your actions are redirected into virtual reality? It would require some kind of power that the system cannot handle. Not everybody has that. My best bet would be Tennyo, by letting out the Star Stalker and corroding the sim suit away, similar to the Christmas Crisis. Others might be less fortunate.
|
|
|
| Re: Ayla 9: Ayla and the Scientist [message #62930 is a reply to message #51709 ] |
Mon, 06 August 2012 11:46 |
Cryptic
Messages: 364
Registered: June 2012
Location: PA |
|
|
|
To mangle a Star wars-isum Phase is only 'Dark' from a certain point of view. From her view point, it has to be done even if people don't like it. And frankly I see nothing wrong with how the sim played out, and rather liked it. Phase is more an Evil Batman vs the 'Jean Grey gone Nuts Dark Phoenix' of Billie, Fey, and to a lesser extent Jade. And we saw her tweaking her teammate's noses but reusing some aspects of the 'I can kill them with enough prep.' back up plans. And Bardue gave her the prep and resources.
Though i do have to wonder what the heck the threat is. I can understand why Phase had the financial bit; a war effort is expensive.
As for them in early, I think it was a set up to earn the Payroll Platoon some more cash due to the demand by mutie fights on pay per view after the teasers in the Combat finals.
|
|
|
| Re: Ayla 9: Ayla and the Scientist [message #62934 is a reply to message #51709 ] |
Mon, 06 August 2012 14:05 |
Wasanti
Messages: 4
Registered: August 2012 |
|
|
|
|
I think it the next Dark Phoenix won´t be just Dark Lancer, but Dark Lancer and Dark Chaka in one.
|
|
| | |
| Re: Ayla 9: Ayla and the Scientist [message #62938 is a reply to message #62935 ] |
Mon, 06 August 2012 15:24 |
GreenEggs667
Messages: 86
Registered: December 2006
Location: the nearist mid-east sand... |
|
|
|
| Diane Castle wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 14:10 | | GreenEggs667 wrote on Mon, 06 August 2012 00:46 | The worst thing about this chapter is the time Phase is not doing anything to her foes. Everything you learn in planing combat is hit 1st, hit hardest & then keep hitting. Never let up and let the enemy regroup, forex 91 Easting in the 91 Gulf War was so fast & fluid that the 2nd ACR completely over ran what support there was & had to be held back. This is what Phase isn't doing. It'll be interesting to see what Diane does in chapter 14 to resolve this.
|
Yes. You'll note that the other Kimbas spotted this even while in the sim, and commented on it. You'll see the reason in the next chapter, which is probably two weeks away.
Diane
|
I'll say also that this is one of the best cliff hanger chapters I've ever read too Diane, Kudos indeed. Seeing Phase used her skills & knowledge gained from the beginning of the team training to wage war is interesting. I'll also note he hasn't gone to total war yet either. Thank goodness. I guess now I'll be on tenterhooks till 14 comes out & I'll be using several Army FM's to game this out.
greeneggs667
nospam
"I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worthwhile?"
Death thought about it.
"Cats," he said eventually. "Cats are nice."
Terry Pratchett, Sourcery
|
|
|
| Re: Ayla 9: Ayla and the Scientist [message #62943 is a reply to message #51709 ] |
Mon, 06 August 2012 18:01 |
khade
Messages: 1579
Registered: May 2011
Location: Rockies |
|
|
|
I'm going to take a stab at explaining some of the stuff people don't seem to get.
Backstory, as I interpret it:
Ayla was being less then forthright about things for a while, the team was getting suspicious. They looked into his activities while he was maybe not at the school for some reason, and got reason to believe he had gone rogue, told the school, and got permission to go to where the evidence pointed to his first attack would be. That attack turned out to be nothing, and while they were gone, the MCO came to the school about a possibility of the whole team having gone rogue. Given the powerhouses that they had, Tennyo and Fey especiallly, and the fact that they'd be coming back to the school, if only for the resources available, the school was evacuated, possibly to the west coast. Ayla waited out of sight, with his army over the horizon or cloaked until all his targets were in the kill zone, at which point the trap began to go off. He wants them to help him, so he tries to subvert them, the kill on camera would be MUCH more effective then a framing murder.
Since they know he's very smart, and knows how they do things, they know they can't trick him, and the only way to win is to get out of there as quickly as possible, with the agents. None of them can teleport normally, but Fey can when she's in the Grove, as far as I know none of them are Gearheads so they wouldn't know about that portal, and I doubt it's advertised at all anyway, so from their perspective, the Grove is the only effective way out, they can't afford to waste time or chance the agents dying from not going directly to the only chance they can see, even though they know that it's obviously a trap. There would be a non zero chance that they could get away by going through the woods, but it isn't that great, so they use that as an attempt to make the inevitable trap less dangerous, which might have worked, but the army Ayla had was too big to have that actually help much.
Incidentally, Ayla would know about any entrances, due to his contacts with every group in the school and would have traps at all of the possibilities, or if possible, turned them off once he got his army to them. If he could find out where they went to, they could also be attack points for his invasion.
I'm sure there's more that I don't remember I wanted to talk about, but I can't remember them.
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Tue May 21 01:34:42 EDT 2013
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.06259 seconds
|
Members
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
