Home » The Crystal Hall » Poe Cottage » Jade Cute Little School girl or the Ultimate Evil?!?
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| Re: Jade Cute Little School girl or the Ultimate Evil?!? [message #61611 is a reply to message #61598 ] |
Fri, 13 July 2012 16:12   |
Niknokitueu
Messages: 649
Registered: May 2011
Location: Swansea, UK |
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| Sojiro wrote on Fri, 13 July 2012 18:44 | What Sir Lee said. The above would only prove that jade's reach has exactly doubled (which is awfully suspicious when you consider there was never any other hint of growth on that area) if she was attacking things 6 feet away in both directions at once.
Jann-sensei must keep both Jade and her gizmos in the same 6 feet wide sphere, but she doesn't have to keep Jade in the center. So she can reach 6 feet in any direction by sticking the opposite side of the "bubble" against Jade.
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...In which case Diane would surely have stated that the knives etc were orbiting Jade, destroying anything that got within 6 feet (like the description of what Kitty Compact and Spinner were doing).
It could be read either way. I read it one way, you another.
(Stopped here to look for evidence)
Oh, it seems you all are right and I was wrong:
| Christmas Elves: Fey and Jade's Holiday Havoc | Taking back the charge on "Frank," she recast it on the entire group of five men. They'd have to stay close together inside a six-foot bubble, but Jinn could control five zombies as easily as one. It made Jade's meat shield thicker, and gave them five rifles. It also left her with zero charges, but she'd have to manage. Aside from her recent bullet holes, she was doing fairly well.
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So her power is still limited to a 6 ft 'bubble'. Dang...
Never mind, she can still use gloves attached to a reel to search an internal warehouse (if Thuban's compression rate ever gets up that high). Even at the moment she could use an extending 'grabber' to pull something to within her 6 ft reach, and then use animated gloves to pass it out. Assuming she didn't just use a smaller version of the gloves and reel I outlined above...
Have Fun!
Niknokitueu
Do, or Do Not. There is no Try.
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| Re: Jade Cute Little School girl or the Ultimate Evil?!? [message #61637 is a reply to message #61604 ] |
Fri, 13 July 2012 21:06 |
 TheEyes
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2011 |
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| Laudator wrote on Fri, 13 July 2012 15:21 | Bear in mind, Jade has height, too, 4'9". Possessing Jade-physical would leave Jann with only 1'3" reach overhead and a bit less than 5'6" around waist-height, to keep a standing Jade inside a 6' diameter sphere - and not all at once, either.
(assuming I've done my trig properly)
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The problem's even worse than this. Consider Jinn, our 5'7" seventeen-year old J-team member. If the J-team's reach is really still only six feet in diameter, then Jinn would not be able to hold her arms apart, or reach above her head, without pulling her legs up into her torso. Even mundane tasks like brushing her own hair would require weird compromises with her legs and body.
Even worse was the Lazuli form, the 5'6" gargoyle patterned after a Gargoyle. In order to be even slightly show-accurate, indeed, just to not look weird and out of place, the wings and tail on such a doll would have to extend much past 6 feet, and even in a "resting" form would not fit inside a 6-foot sphere. And no, we already know that Jade did not selectively ignore the wings, and just control them from separate buttons within the doll, since she later animated a chalk outline version of Lazuli to do her meet with Tool.
This was actually discussed several years ago (and not lost in the crash, so you can search for it pretty easily), and Babs herself came online to basically say that she didn't intend any of those weird effects, and to assume that Jade's reach has grown since her initial six feet, to something more like eight or nine.
So, it's far more likely that Jade's reach has long been beyond a mere six-foot diameter, and she just hasn't noticed because she has had other aspects of her power to focus on (the "thousand hands" she picked up from Tool, the strength and duration boosts, etc).
The part with the zombies actually proves my point. The average height of an adult male in the US is 5'10". Now, even assuming that every single person Jade animated was as short or shorter than that average, it is still impossible to fit five such people inside a six-foot diameter sphere; heck, it would be hard to fit two people into a sphere that size, even if they were practically standing on each other's toes. No, the six foot sphere is all in Jade's mind at this point; she just hasn't been thinking about it that much, and has been working on too many other projects lately to think to test her reach.
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| Re: Jade Cute Little School girl or the Ultimate Evil?!? [message #61639 is a reply to message #61638 ] |
Fri, 13 July 2012 22:22 |
rubberjohn
Messages: 374
Registered: May 2011
Location: South East Coast UK |
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It seems likely to me that at least some of the confusion may be down to the fact that most of the recent appearances of Jade have been written by authors other than Babs. This may have stunted the natural character development to the point where these inconsistencies have crept in. It is possible that if we get a new Jade story, written once more by Babs, it may contain information that will account for the discrepancies that seem to appear in works by other authors.
John.
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| Re: Jade Cute Little School girl or the Ultimate Evil?!? [message #61642 is a reply to message #28023 ] |
Fri, 13 July 2012 23:20 |
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Sir Lee
Messages: 3060
Registered: May 2005
Location: São Paulo, Brazil |
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Point. The idea of Jinn being limited to a perfectly spherical "domain" six feet or so in diameter is pretty much disproved by the evidence at this point. Either the limit has grown somewhat (but not to twelve foot yet, I think;) or it's a bit more malleable than Jade realizes.
By "malleable," I mean that maybe Jinn can "push" a bit over the limit in some points as long as she "relaxes" in other places. More like a Jello ball than a billiard ball...
If Jinn's limit has simply gone up without Jade realizing, how much would it have to go to make the zombies scene in "Christmas Elves" possible? Let me think...
The zombies would have to fit in the barrel-shaped mid-section of a sphere. To simplify the math a bit, I'll consider that most of their bodies fit in the inner cylinder, with elbows and such being able to stick a bit outside the cylinder (but still inside the sphere). This cylinder has to be about six feet high (if there's any particularly tall zombie, he can be in the centre, where the clearance is higher). But how *wide* does it have to be?
Looking it up (mostly on videos) over the Web, I found that four people per square meter is a bit crowded for our purposes (mass transit systems are considered "ok" up to 6 people/m² -- even though they are known to go over 9 sometimes -- but they aren't moving quickly and fighting). Two people/m² is nice and comfortable for walking.
I'll assume initially that the zombies were a bit crowded together at 3 people/m² -- but then, they don't need to breathe or even see ahead, and they are all perfectly coordinated, so it's not much of a problem even carrying weapons. So, we need a cylinder with a 2 m² section (which gives us about 1,6 m in diameter) and 1,8 m (about six foot) tall.
Now to find the circumscribing sphere... easier than it sounds: it turns out that the diameter of the sphere is the same as the diagonal of the vertical rectangle section. So, the diagonal for a 1,8m x 1,6m = 2,4m. That is, about eight feet.
So, if Jade's range has increased from six feet to eight feet, the zombies scene is perfectly possible. And I was, I think, a bit conservative with the crowding numbers; maybe a smaller sphere would be enough.
Let me recalculate for 4 people/m²... that gives a 1,5 m² cylinder base... which gives 1,4m in diameter... and a 2,30m sphere diameter. Yeah, not that much of a difference. Not surprising, since the cylinder was already taller than wider -- thinning it doesn't help much.
What about crouching, then? Let's keep the looser 3 people/m² (the zombies will need the room if they are crouching) and lower the top of the cylinder to 1,60 m (I find I can easily lower myself 20 cm from my full height, and in fact I wouldn't be all straight up and stiff in combat situations, I think). This helps a bit more -- the sphere can now be 2,26m in diameter. But that's still seven and a half feet, thereabouts.
But... I don't think the heads have to be contained *inside* the cylinder. They probably can fit in the lens-shaped portion above (there's a big difference between shoulder width and head width, after all). So, let me try it another way... let me consider those 4 people/m² numbers (1,4m in diameter) and see how it fits in a 1,8m sphere.
Hmmm... It turns out that the cylinder is just 1,13m tall... that's a ridiculous low crouch, even if that number is to shoulder height. I simply don't buy it. No way they fit in a six-foot sphere
For a seven-foot (2,10m) sphere, though... let me see... that's 1,56m. To shoulder height. That's barely crouching at all. I think a seven-foot diameter is believable, for nonbreathing, perfectly coordinated zombies.
So... I guess Jade did grow a bit in reach but hasn't noticed it consciously yet. She's not known for doing formal, controlled tests of her powers, after all...
[Updated on: Fri, 13 July 2012 23:20]
Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
--
Sent from my Bugs Industries® bPhone™
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| Re: Jade Cute Little School girl or the Ultimate Evil?!? [message #61645 is a reply to message #28023 ] |
Fri, 13 July 2012 23:29 |
TheEyes
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2011 |
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More to the point, she can't have the zombies crouch, because then she'd have to lift them all through PK alone, rather than allowing locked joints to push against the floor by themselves. And she can't do that: one instance of Jinn can lift around 300 pounds (maybe a bit more, since that's a measurement from early November), and five men, with AK-47s and body armor, would have to weigh close to 1,000 pounds.
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| Re: Jade Cute Little School girl or the Ultimate Evil?!? [message #61663 is a reply to message #28023 ] |
Sat, 14 July 2012 06:12 |
khade
Messages: 1578
Registered: May 2011
Location: Rockies |
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The weight is actually explained in story I think, she just manipulated the joints, got them into the position she wanted then locked them, like stop motion filming, but much much faster and a lot scarier.
If it's not, it was explained elsewhere, but I'm sure I remember it being in story.
edit
And on the how many per charge, one for the athame, one for spinner, one for her kitty compact, one to keep her alive and able to fly. I believe she had access to five at this point, so that leaves one for her first squad of zombies. Then her weapons got destroyed or broken into uselessness, or just couldn't get any farther, and returned to her, and she raised other squads. Could be wrong though on that.
[Updated on: Sat, 14 July 2012 06:16]
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| Re: Jade Cute Little School girl or the Ultimate Evil?!? [message #61667 is a reply to message #61662 ] |
Sat, 14 July 2012 06:43 |
TheEyes
Messages: 451
Registered: May 2011 |
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| Sojiro wrote on Sat, 14 July 2012 06:10 | Wasn't Jade using 3 zombie per charge rather than 6?
The real problem with that scene isn't the space, zombies can be very close to each others. It's the weight. I have my own personal theory for that (it's the joint lock described above, actually), but mostly I just try not to think about it.
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"Taking back the charge on "Frank," she recast it on the entire group of five men." --At that point, she only had the one free charge: one was in the dagger; one in the pixies, one in Snake (he hadn't melted just yet). Her limit at this point is four charges (the fifth one, used briefly when Hekate imapled her, knocked her out so thoroughly at this point that she was concerned about it killing her, or rather, she would be worried if she weren't already dying). So one charge, five men.
And the space issue really is important, much more so than I think you realize. So, let's say that you have two people standing shoulder to shoulder. Now, I'm not exactly Professor Broadshoulders, but my shoulders are 21-inches apart, give or take. Let's assume that's our minimum, even though trained military personnel will be more muscled and broadshouldered than I am. Putting the 6-foot sphere exactly between them, we get a max height of 5'9" for both people, below average for US males even before you account for boots, helmets, etc, before one or both of them have to put a head or foot out of the sphere.
Add another three people in the mix and you're even worse off: your best scenario there means you have three people standing abreast, giving you a max height of 4'10" for four of your people (the guy at the center can be taller, but only another seven inches, because some of the six-foot sphere has to be underground unless the other four people are floating in the air). And again, you can't have anyone crouching, so these really are hard limits.
[Updated on: Sat, 14 July 2012 06:46]
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