Home » The Crystal Hall » Poe Cottage » Poe's Secret (Discuss here the questions involved in keeping the secret.)
| Re: Poe's Secret [message #57188 is a reply to message #56174 ] |
Mon, 23 April 2012 11:00   |
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 Sojiro
Messages: 1652
Registered: November 2011 |
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I'd like to point out that Ayla was attacked a good half a dozen times for being transgendered, and in several case it would have been really serious if she wasn't nigh-invulnerable.
Ignoring the various situations where someone less aggressively caustic as Ayla could have avoided a beat down (he does goad the bullies into attacking more often than not), we do have a few situation that are a good example. One group directly attempted to "hurt her badly"*, which would mean a trip to the hospital. One attacked without warning, and hard enough to harm her when fully heavy, if she wasn't quite that tough she'd have multiple broken bones. One punched her eyeball with super strength before she could even start insulting them ; he hurt his hand since it wasn't as hard as Ayla's eyeball, but anyone but a pk or density brick could have gotten a crippling injury from this.
And then we have Reach, who was attacked several times, including someone who threw plasma at her. If she hadn't been quite that fast to dodge the attack, she could have died.
So we have several examples of TG beatings that could have turned horribly wrong if the protagonists hadn't been quite as badass as they are.
And what character do we have that is publicly TG and doesn't get bullied for that? Jobette? Ignoring the problems with Counterpoint (since it would have played out differently but probably no less violently if he hadn't injected himself with the Drow formula) he got through pretty much unmolested. But on the other hand, he has such a fearsome (and deserved!) reputation that this really doesn't say much on the matter.
So just looking at the facts, the Secret of Poe Cottage does help its residents.
* PS : after checking, they tried to rip his arms from their sockets, so yeah, they were trying to inflict a grievous wound
[Updated on: Mon, 23 April 2012 14:14]
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #57193 is a reply to message #57188 ] |
Mon, 23 April 2012 12:53 |
nekoali
Messages: 206
Registered: June 2011 |
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No, choosing to stay closeted saves the less able students. So would better enforcement, more cracking down on the rather excessive bullying that goes on (a faculty plot) and better education.
Right now the school isn't teaching all of the students to be better, more understanding people. It's teaching the LGBT kids that they better stay hidden or they're going to get beat up or killed. As pointed out before, this is an archaic mindset that the only way to 'protect' the kids is to keep them in the closet. That harms as much as it helps. Harms both the kids mentally and the overall rights and dignity of people in general.
Look at all the times someone has been attacked with what would be lethal force to anyone else for reasons other than being LGBT. How many times has Ayla been jumped for reasons other than is intersex condition?
The fact about bullying is... bullies will find something to hate about you. Being LGBT is only one thing. People are bullied for a thousand other reasons as well, and if someone wants to hate you, they are going to find a way.
Because of this rule by the school that being gay or a changeling is something to hide, the faculty is _teaching_ the kids to be ashamed of themselves, or fearful. Instead of offering support, they are shoving them back in the closet. No progress is ever made if you're to busy running from something instead of embracing it. And if you are proud to be gay or bi or trans... then all the nasty names in the world are but water off a duck's back.
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #57218 is a reply to message #56174 ] |
Mon, 23 April 2012 21:09 |
khade
Messages: 1590
Registered: May 2011
Location: Rockies |
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As I understand the gay straight alliance clubs, you can join regardless of your orientation and you don't have to say what orientation you are, so that would be an excellent way to set up support and let people into or out of the closet without destroying the house(to extend the whatchamacallit to the breaking point).
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #57232 is a reply to message #57193 ] |
Tue, 24 April 2012 09:58 |
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Cockle
Messages: 646
Registered: July 2011
Location: UK |
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| nekoali wrote on Mon, 23 April 2012 17:53 | Right now the school isn't teaching all of the students to be better, more understanding people.
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That got me thinking about Whateley Neutrality. It gets trotted out a lot when people complain that not enough is done to stop bullying and other unpleasant activities of some students.
But is that really relevant? Whilst the Syndicate, say, might like a certain moral flexibility, they're also surely going to want people who can work in a team and aren't going to be bullying their work-mates - which is sure to include some LGBT people, isn't it?
We know Dr Diabolik requires - and rewards - loyalty in his employees. That's hardly possible if they're all a bunch of vicious thugs. Even the people who do want vicious thugs - like Deathlist - still seem to foster high morale within their teams, rather than constant back-biting.
Maybe it's actually a subtle plot to lower the quality of future minions? If not, maybe the Syndicate or Lord Paramount, (assuming they're not the same thing) should have words with the administration about trying to instill a more productive ethical framework.
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #57239 is a reply to message #57232 ] |
Tue, 24 April 2012 14:36 |
nekoali
Messages: 206
Registered: June 2011 |
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Well the overall feel and working theory on why faculty is letting so much more bullying go on lately is that Something Big And Bad is coming in the nearish future. Something this generation of mutants/enhanced people is going to have to deal with. And something that is going to be requiring them to be combat ready and tough enough to deal with it. So they are letting more bullying going on and ramping up the importance of combat classes to get them read for this vague and as yet unknown threat.
I see this as a bad idea for so many reasons. But that's another subject.
I don't really see the neutrality clause as having a big effect here. That means mostly that they will accept people regardless of their parents or backgrounds. And that they refuse to step in on the side of heroes or villains. They also tend to handle problems in house, rather than turn to the police. Because let's face it, even if you scaled things down to ordinary kid scale and ignored the fact that you have kids who can juggle tanks... A lot of the stuff that goes on in this school would get the kids arrested. We have teens with registered firearms, deadly weapons not only getting training in how to use them, but actively using them with intent to cause severe harm or death on one another. Kids like Jobe, Counterpoint and Nex would have been arrested long ago if they were normal kids in normal schools doing the things they do.
In that way the neutrality surfaces in disciple problems. Instead of having the kids arrested, when caught they get punished instead, handling it in house. But if you do wrong and get caught, you do get punished, so neutrality doesn't protect future villains there. And really, it shouldn't. In the idea of training future villains, they should understand the importance of things like how to skirt the law, how to hide your activities and how to get away with things. Not be pat on the head and told 'don't do that again' when you're caught breaking into some place.
That sort of thing (not for future criminals, but in general) is a problem with kids... They aren't being taught with realistic exceptions of the consequences of their actions. So when they continue to do bad things because they don't get in real trouble for it, then hit that magical age when they're 'supposed to know better' they suddenly get hit with a much harsher punishment than what they had in the past... That's really as much a failing of those teaching these kids (and that's everyone, not just schools). Instead kids should be taught from the start that if you do something wrong, you will pay for it.
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #58752 is a reply to message #57193 ] |
Tue, 22 May 2012 11:58 |
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mittfh
Messages: 764
Registered: May 2011
Location: Kenilworth, UK |
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| nekoali wrote on Mon, 23 April 2012 17:53 | Because of this rule by the school that being gay or a changeling is something to hide, the faculty is _teaching_ the kids to be ashamed of themselves, or fearful.
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That isn't true in the slightest. Poe residents are free to come out to the student population whenever they wish; they're just requested not to 'out' anyone else.
Many people (especially in more conservative communities) have deeply-set religious / moral objections to people who deviate from what they regard as the heterosexual norm. Therefore unless all students were screened for their beliefs / attitudes on such matters, it could be possible for an LGB student to be rooming with someone vehemently opposed to the practice; and who may subscribe to the theory that the alternate sexuality can be beaten out of them. Even if they did manage to hide their sexuality, they'd be living in fear throughout their time in school.
Also, let's face it, they're all teenagers - and even if given dire warnings of expulsion if they seriously injured someone based on their sex / sexuality / any other factor, some would still do it. Would it be ethical for the administration to wait until one of the LGBT students had ended up in hospital or even killed to get the message across?
While students could potentially get beaten up for a number of reasons, the international mix of students makes it less likely than LGBT, as people with a more conservative leaning from all political parties and religions across all countries are likely to be prejudiced against them.
Things are even worse for the changelings - many haven't finished by the time they enter school, so unless their roommate was screened to ensure they wouldn't blow up on finding they were rooming with an 'inbetweenie', the changeling could end up being persecuted by a good number of students within their cottage.
Teaching tolerance and respect is one thing, but how do you enforce it from day one in an environment where the non-changelings would be made very much aware of the changeling's status every single day of the year?
It's far better to separate their accommodation so they're living in an environment where everyone is aware of their status and isn't likely to blow their top. They're then free to 'come out' as and when they want to, rather than being forced by circumstances to 'come out' within 24 hours of arrival.
Additionally, living together means they know each other and can come to each other's aid if one of their number gets in a sticky situation - such alliances would be harder to form if they were spread around campus and just had occasional club meetings which could have the potential to degenerate into a farce similar to Faction 3 (where everyone just moans about their situation rather than clubbing together, sharing experiences and strategies, and generally just socialising without sharing their history and experiences).
-oOo-
Still, it could be possible for the administration to make a few simple changes that could reduce any potential stigma of Poe being the LGBT cottage: e.g. playing up the unofficial cover story, those who are straight but need additional psychological help / support could possibly move in and agree not to 'out' anyone; over time the 'additional support' line could become official and interpreted to mean both LGBT and straight allies with a need for psychological help / support.
Additionally, given that both Poe and Hawthorne will be extended, the increasing alliances between residents of both cottages, and the recently built tunnel connecting them; in future it may be possible to reduce the warding, with the administration noting that the 'fear factor' from the Thornies (who are a mix of those with heavy GSD and those who have insufficient control over their powers - the latter set no doubt being viewed as an obstacle to the anti-GSD brigade causing problems).
However, any / all actions would have to be done gradually, with regular reviews.
[Updated on: Tue, 22 May 2012 12:18]
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #58758 is a reply to message #56174 ] |
Tue, 22 May 2012 14:22 |
Rockhound
Messages: 154
Registered: May 2012
Location: California, USA |
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It's not the students (of any orientation and/or gender configuration) that disturb me.
It's the mañana attitude of the Faculty.
Especially with the "temporary" TG (the process, not the orientation) kids, like Marty or Beltane, who rely on their active powers to maintain their preferred gender.
The Faculty has already had a rather gnarly demonstration of why leaving this to simmer is a bad idea. Paragon, who got murdered (while the other students stood and watched) by her boyfriend, who found out her secret when her powers failed in public.
Carson should be sitting down with these kids and explaining why running a romance under false pretenses, especially in that way, is a really bad idea. If you don't feel comfortable telling your SO the truth about yourself....you probably don't want them to find out when your power fails, either.
That's added in to the (frequently mentioned) refusal of the Faculty to crack down on students who routinely commit assault and GBH...and Carson is repeatedly shown to know exactly what is going down on campus (with the odd lapse, like with Hekate). Letting the school blackhearts and psychos turn Phase into "Tinsnip meets Warren Buffet" is probably not how she wants her administration to be remembered.
[Updated on: Tue, 22 May 2012 14:31]
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #58767 is a reply to message #58758 ] |
Tue, 22 May 2012 16:58 |
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mittfh
Messages: 764
Registered: May 2011
Location: Kenilworth, UK |
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Whateley seems to have a strange approach to bullying / violence. If it's done within sight of staff, or if staff are approached to stop it; then both parties are likely to get told off, including the victim - if they fight back that's a no-no, and if they just let the bully beat them up that's also a no-no - in both cases Administration's view is that they should have avoided the confrontation in the first place.
If it's over and done with before any staff appear on the scene, it's likely no action will be taken as short of DNA samples, it would be difficult to prove who the perpetrator was. Besides which, with so many people around with psychic powers, it's even possible the perpetrator was acting under compulsion - in which case it's even harder to work out who gave the order.
Even more so than ordinary schools, exclusion is an absolute last resort, and given the nature of the Neutrality policy only the most serious misdemeanours (ones that would anger the likes of The Syndicate as well as heroes) would result in a referral to the MCO or ARC.
Aside from exclusion, the punishments seem limited to detention (Hawthorne being a particular favourite) or a UV armband (if their violence is fairly non-discriminatory).
They could perhaps do with having a review of their disciplinary policy - after all, detentions only work if they're something the pupil wants to avoid at all costs - if they get used to detentions or they're not fazed by them, they'll have negligible effect. It would also be a good idea if changelings (both those in Poe and elsewhere) were reminded at the start of the year that it would be a very good idea to mention their status to significant others before they got too serious - citing the Paragon case if necessary to drive the point home.
It may also be beneficial for changelings known to the staff but residing outside Poe to be let into the secret, so if they have any issues / problems they know there's a whole group of people they can discuss their situation with informally, without needing to make an appointment with their counsellor (never mind the fact that opening up to a peer is probably far easier than opening up to an adult!)
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #60203 is a reply to message #56174 ] |
Wed, 20 June 2012 02:57 |
TheEyes
Messages: 452
Registered: May 2011 |
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As mentioned above, the Whateley disciplinary policy was changed to be far more lax than it was in the past, apparently at the insistence of Mrs. Potter (reference in one of the Loophole stories, and in the Birthday Brawl), because apparently she saw something bad enough--and has enough of a reputation for being always right--that it warranted turning several classes worth of high school age superheroes into Columbine kids. I'd say it's even worse than a nebulous "Something Bad": Whateley is actively teaching its current student body to hide from and distrust everyone in authority, and that the system not only does not work, but is actively designed to fail the less powerful.
In other words, they are preparing this class for a time when the system itself will be compromised.
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #60205 is a reply to message #58767 ] |
Wed, 20 June 2012 04:32 |
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Sojiro
Messages: 1652
Registered: November 2011 |
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| mittfh wrote on Tue, 22 May 2012 22:58 | Whateley seems to have a strange approach to bullying / violence. If it's done within sight of staff, or if staff are approached to stop it; then both parties are likely to get told off, including the victim - if they fight back that's a no-no, and if they just let the bully beat them up that's also a no-no - in both cases Administration's view is that they should have avoided the confrontation in the first place.
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This again?
Punishing everyone involved in a fight is standard practice the world over in education, because things shouldn't degenerate to that point. That is even more true when you are dealing with a population of students with innate lethal powers.
Please try to provide examples instead of making broad judgments like that. There are very few cases where they actually punished everyone equally, and even when they did (Breakfast Brawl) it was in a situation where they couldn't really tell who had attacked first (so as far as they knew they were all equally guilty).
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #60315 is a reply to message #60306 ] |
Fri, 22 June 2012 17:10 |
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Sojiro
Messages: 1652
Registered: November 2011 |
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| E. E. Nalley wrote on Fri, 22 June 2012 21:46 | Guys there's also a certain amount of dramatic license and suspension of disbelief here as well.
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Yes, this too.
When something is important (or even essential like in this case) to the narrative, the question you have to ask is not "is this the most likely and logical thing that could happen here", but rather "is it reasonable for this to happen here".
As long as the situation is coherent, it is enough to maintain verisimilitude, and even if you think that a different outcome would be more natural it is not a real problem.
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #60951 is a reply to message #60306 ] |
Tue, 03 July 2012 07:36 |
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greyman
Messages: 223
Registered: May 2011 |
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| E. E. Nalley wrote on Sat, 23 June 2012 05:46 | Guys there's also a certain amount of dramatic license and suspension of disbelief here as well. Let's be honest, if this were 'how it's supposed to be' it would read like:| Whateley the Reality Series | The Don reared back for a massive blow, but Chaka, fearful of getting in trouble leaped cat-like away and scrambled for the nearest teacher lest she get detention....
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Not very exciting, is it?
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On the other hand, having the J-Team take down an ambush then Lancer arrive with security to clean up after her--or them--worked out rather decently.
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #60960 is a reply to message #60951 ] |
Tue, 03 July 2012 12:07 |
Niknokitueu
Messages: 649
Registered: May 2011
Location: Swansea, UK |
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| greyman wrote on Tue, 03 July 2012 12:36 | | E. E. Nalley wrote on Sat, 23 June 2012 05:46 | Guys there's also a certain amount of dramatic license and suspension of disbelief here as well. Let's be honest, if this were 'how it's supposed to be' it would read like:| Whateley the Reality Series | The Don reared back for a massive blow, but Chaka, fearful of getting in trouble leaped cat-like away and scrambled for the nearest teacher lest she get detention....
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Not very exciting, is it?
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On the other hand, having the J-Team take down an ambush then Lancer arrive with security to clean up after her--or them--worked out rather decently.
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What is even better is that someone ranked 263 on the ratings took out the three furies almost single-handedly. Well, her, her, her and an Ayla-powered Ice egg*, at any rate...
Have Fun!
Niknokitueu
*I cannot remember whether she had spinner and kitty compact running, or just kitty compact. If she had both, it should be amended to 'her, her, her, her and an Ayla-powered Ice egg'** 
**Unless she had Jann-sensei running as well, which makes it her, her, her, her, her and an Ayla-powered Ice egg.
Do, or Do Not. There is no Try.
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #60961 is a reply to message #56174 ] |
Tue, 03 July 2012 12:26 |
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Sojiro
Messages: 1652
Registered: November 2011 |
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It has been mentioned multiple times that her ranking is hideously inappropriate. First cute little girls tend to rank low regardless of their actual abilities, because it's pretty biased. Next it was done before even the Turks fight, so the ones who wrote it only had data from before jade started getting really badass. The fight against electrode is a very poor way to assess her skills since Electrode's powers neutralize half the gimmicks she had at that time. And she has gained a variety of way more dangerous ones in the following weeks.
The Bees Of Doom and the Raising Heart she developed the following term raised her fighting ability even further.
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