Home » The Crystal Hall » Poe Cottage » Poe's Secret (Discuss here the questions involved in keeping the secret.)
| Re: Poe's Secret [message #56594 is a reply to message #56374 ] |
Tue, 10 April 2012 18:54   |
 awjs
Messages: 524
Registered: May 2011
Location: U.S.A. |
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| GinnCaster5 wrote on Thu, 05 April 2012 21:04 | Then how come Fubar can read them, no prob? Is he exempted from the wards' effects because he's staff? And how come Cavalier could still read the Kimbas? And why did Ayla want mental defenses if Poesies are protected? Do the wards only protect LGBT info or something?
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How could Cavalier read the Kimbas mind? With great difficulty and confusion.
See here:
| Quote: | The shower was the perfect temperature when he got there, and by the time that he was finished, Cavalier had set out his clothes. As Cavalier helped get him dressed, Sebastiano said, "Have you finished those research notes on those idiot Poe freshmen?"
"Yes, Sir, though they're not as comprehensive as I'd like. For some reason, many of the members of Team Kimba appear to be quite resistant to my probes, and there's a surprising amount of resistance to probing into Poe Cottage entirely. The inmates are ... confusing..."
"Tell me something I don't know." Sebastiano muttered. "Lunatics maldecio Di o ... So how comprehensive are your notes?"
"General overview of their tactics and strategies, such as they are, personality analysis, and what I could dig up as regards their backgrounds. The security is unusually tight on these cases for some reason."
Sebastiano nodded. "I know. Again, the security around Poe cottage in general is rather strict. Might be worth looking into to find out exactly why. Well, leave me, I won't be needing you for a while."
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So it appears to be fairly hard for someone to get to deep into the minds of Poesies.
‘luck in good finds’ -from Test Tube Babies
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #56811 is a reply to message #56174 ] |
Sun, 15 April 2012 14:55 |
Caliban
Messages: 143
Registered: May 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ |
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I think the secrecy around Poe is not as necessary as it used to be, but still helpful so they continue the policy.
Yes, TODAY most students don't seem to have a big deal with other LGBT students. Like racism in America, overt prejudice and violence have gradually lessened over the last several decades, while still existing on an individual level.
At the time the secrecy policy was implemented, it was an environment were the authorities tended to turn a blind eye towards violence against LGBT individuals, and individuals who hated/feared them felt justified in acting against them or shunning them. Combine that with teenage emotions and mutant powers, and you have a recipe for disaster.
But while it may not be an institutionalized part of our culture anymore, it does still exist. People still teach hate and violence against those who are different. Just check out http://www.hrc.org/ for a list of hate crimes against LGBT individuals ( http://www.hrc.org/files/assets/resources/Hatecrimesandviole nceagainstlgbtpeople_2009.pdf for one report).
Even if 95% of the student body is willing to accept, or at least tolerate, an openly LGBT individual, it only takes one who doesn't and has a strong powerset for it to turn into a tragedy. Not every LGBT student can expect Team Kimba to protect them.
So I think the policy is still useful, especially for those LGBT students who don't want to come out of the closet just yet, and want to get through high school without the risk of becoming a hate crime statistic. If it was started today, I don't think they would go to the lengths they did (the psi shield around Poe, etc), but given the atmosphere when the policy was implemented I think it was justified, and now that the extreme measures are in place they simply continue it.
[Updated on: Sun, 15 April 2012 14:57]
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #56880 is a reply to message #56174 ] |
Mon, 16 April 2012 12:34 |
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tensai
Messages: 976
Registered: July 2008 |
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The issue I've always had with the whole Poe/Secret thing is that it doesn't seem to protect at all. It isolates and works as an othering influence.
Poe's secret is actively detrimental to students who didn't mark the 'right' checkboxes on the entry form and got shunted into one of the non-TG dorms... and if we're making assumptions about how the universe is full of people whose first reaction to 'LGBT' is 'yeehaw, let's Matty Shepard them right out of town', then hiding your LGBT status is a sane, rational decision. As a result of that, you're effectively exiled from any kind of community support; you're not going to come out unless you're suicidal, and you're not likely to learn about the major LGBT support community on-campus, because the campus infrastructure is actively suppressing your ability to know it exists - Secret of Poe, remember?
Poe's secret is detrimental to students who did check the right boxes and end up in Poe - right during the orientation, there's a very implicit message of "the campus administration is unable to protect LGBT students; instead, we have chosen to house you in separate but equal facilities and force you into actively lying about your true natures when it comes to talking to anyone outside of the group of people you're housed with. Yes, you're free to come out if you want, but we all know there's a lot of implicit social pressure to not do so; after all, will your closeted LGBT friends still want to be seen with you once everyone knows what you are (and by extension, suspects your friends of being the same way)?"
Poe's secret is detrimental to students with mental health issues, since 'everyone knows the crazies are in Poe (Are you in there? No? Gee, must not be serious)'. The same goes in reverse; Poe residents are constantly being pushed the message that 'The campus administration finds your LGBT status difficult enough to handle that they would find it preferable to call you mentally deficient. The crazy schizo on the street has a condition that we find more tasteful than yours.'
Largely, I don't have issues with Poe Cottage, largely because you see that sort of yay-diversity living experience in some dorms on college campuses, and it makes sense to have facilities and a living experience that supports students through this sort of transition. However, I don't agree with actively suppressing Poe's existence and the secrecy surrounding it for the reasons listed above (and a few more I probably haven't considered).
If you want to have a support network for LGBT students and allies, make it something the entire campus can actively participate in instead of one you have to check the right box on a form for. If you want to put forward the message that 'the campus supports you through your change', then saying 'you need to hide what you are' is not the way to go about it.
All-out campus warfare shouldn't even be an issue to worry about; you have (in theory) a top-notch security force, multiple faculty with powers, and a metric crapton of collective wisdom. You don't fight the mob when it rages; you get to the ringleaders before it even starts, you keep an eye on your trouble factors and intervene before you need to exercise actual force. You send a strong message from day uno that any kind of discrimination will be dealt with harshly, and you enforce it rigorously. If need be, slap a Section 33 on every Poesie at Whateley if you're worried about the campus getting slagged.
If you're not willing to take these kinds of steps, you might as well change the Poe cottage motto to:
United we're crushed,
Divided we fall,
Best live in secret
or we won't live at all
"It took her some time to accept that with such wings, her soul would never soar--but the fact that she could kick a man's lungs out through his spine was ultimately some small consolation." -ursulav
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #56887 is a reply to message #56174 ] |
Mon, 16 April 2012 15:55 |
Laudator
Messages: 941
Registered: February 2009 |
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The question is: How do you fix the problems you see without resorting to retcon?
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #56888 is a reply to message #56880 ] |
Mon, 16 April 2012 15:56 |
Caliban
Messages: 143
Registered: May 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ |
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| tensai wrote on Mon, 16 April 2012 09:34 | The issue I've always had with the whole Poe/Secret thing is that it doesn't seem to protect at all. It isolates and works as an othering influence.
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This seems like an accurate assessment as well. Rarely are there perfect solutions, just whatever seems to work at the time, and once something is shown to work, people don't want to change it.
Poe really only helps those who admitted to being LGBT on their admission forms, and from some viewpoints (like Tensai's) they aren't really being helped, just isolated. The stories already mention several students who fall into Changling status without being in Poe - they just haven't told anyone about it.
I don't have much experience with this myself. Who normally organizes a Gay Rights club/alliance at a private school? The administration or the students?
I think it would normally come from the students when they feel they aren't being taken care of by the administration. But at Whately, all the students who admit to being LGBT on their admission papers are put in Poe and told they are being taken care of and protected. Combined with the whole "secret identity" mystique that a lot of wannabe super hero/villains buy into, they probably just accept it at face value without thinking about it to much. And thus the students most likely to speak out and form a LGBT rights organization on the school do nothing, because they thing something is already being done.
Basically, I think the administration did what they thought was best at the time, and it's worked well enough so they've continued the policy. Even if better ways of handling it seem obvious in retrospect.
I don't think anything needs to be retconned - just accept that this is the way it was handled up until now. There are ample examples of seemingly intelligent and well meaning authority figures implementing policies that turned out to detrimental in the long run. If the authors agree, they can have the current crop of students be agents of change, possibly against resistance from the administration.
[Updated on: Mon, 16 April 2012 16:02]
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #56902 is a reply to message #56880 ] |
Mon, 16 April 2012 18:38 |
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Sojiro
Messages: 1652
Registered: November 2011 |
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| tensai wrote on Mon, 16 April 2012 18:34 | As a result of that, you're effectively exiled from any kind of community support; you're not going to come out unless you're suicidal, and you're not likely to learn about the major LGBT support community on-campus, because the campus infrastructure is actively suppressing your ability to know it exists - Secret of Poe, remember?
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Even if they don't answer on the form (which could be read by anyone, including their parents) they can talk about it to their therapist. Who can them direct them toward the other LGBT kids.
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #56914 is a reply to message #56886 ] |
Mon, 16 April 2012 21:54 |
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trusting
Messages: 181
Registered: March 2009 |
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| dr. bibber wrote on Mon, 16 April 2012 15:34 | I completely subscribe this last posting.
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Yeah that post hit alot of my feelings , concerns and comments all in one shot .
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #56925 is a reply to message #56914 ] |
Tue, 17 April 2012 12:19 |
nekoali
Messages: 206
Registered: June 2011 |
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Tensai is also saying that same things that I've been saying on this subject.
As far as what can be done about it... Revealing Poe's secret to the greater population is a bad idea. Some LBGT actively choose to stay in the closet. This can especially apply to changelings who have completed their transition and embraced it. For someone like Billie, Nikki or Toni revealing their past is kind of pointless and borrowing more trouble than need be. Nikki and Toni at least are fully functioning females now... The fact that they weren't always that way doesn't really need to enter into things unless they want them to.
For the various other non-heterosexual or non-gender-binary and traditional transgender people like Jade they may or may not want to reveal their secret, and it should be their choice to come out or not.
What could and should be done is have a student organized Gay Straight Alliance and a transgender support group. Most schools lump the two of them together, but with the number of rather public gender switches mid term this year then it wouldn't be a bad idea to create a separate trans group to help them come to terms with their new and unexpected identities. And it would provide a place for traditional transgender/non-binary gendered people like Adrienne to go to.
At the same time the school needs to make it quite clear that hate crimes and bullying people for their gender identity or sexual orientation will not be tolerated at all, and will be dealt with much more severely than the usual student scuffles. Which may or may not interfere with this policy faculty has of backing off on students fighting to toughen them up, or whatever reason it is that they are letting more bullying going on than before.
There aren't any perfect answers of course. Kids are going to get bullied for being gay.. some of them might even be gay (on either side of the bullying) or for their gender presentation. That is going to happen, both in school and through life. But providing open support and having faculty promote to everyone the idea of fairness and equality is a better thing, long term and short term than what they are doing now... Hiding all the LGBT kids away and telling them that they should stay in the closet for their own safety, and it's better to be thought of as crazy than gay.
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #57041 is a reply to message #56925 ] |
Sat, 21 April 2012 07:48 |
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Cockle
Messages: 646
Registered: July 2011
Location: UK |
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| nekoali wrote on Tue, 17 April 2012 17:19 | What could and should be done is have a student organized Gay Straight Alliance and a transgender support group. Most schools lump the two of them together, but with the number of rather public gender switches mid term this year then it wouldn't be a bad idea to create a separate trans group to help them come to terms with their new and unexpected identities. And it would provide a place for traditional transgender/non-binary gendered people like Adrienne to go to.
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Is that what modern schools do? (Apart from the gender switches.) It's a long time since I was at school and the subject was never addressed, as far as I recall. In a school of over 1000 pupils there must have been some LBGT kids - even aside from the normal teen uncertainty - but I don't remember any who were out, although some got teased about their alleged sexuality, (not all that much, actually), and there are some who in retrospect seem likely candidates.
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| Re: Poe's Secret [message #57054 is a reply to message #57041 ] |
Sat, 21 April 2012 14:06 |
Fansibubbles
Messages: 90
Registered: June 2011 |
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| Cockle wrote on Sat, 21 April 2012 12:48 |
Is that what modern schools do? (Apart from the gender switches.) It's a long time since I was at school and the subject was never addressed, as far as I recall. In a school of over 1000 pupils there must have been some LBGT kids - even aside from the normal teen uncertainty - but I don't remember any who were out, although some got teased about their alleged sexuality, (not all that much, actually), and there are some who in retrospect seem likely candidates.
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No but most modern schools don't have such a high population of LGBT students as Whateley does. The fact they can even fill a building with them to capacity is pretty surprising.
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