Home » The Crystal Hall » Questions and Answers » Englishmen (and women) of the forum, unite!
| Re: Englishmen (and women) of the forum, unite! [message #41760 is a reply to message #41662 ] |
Fri, 17 June 2011 11:07   |
mn--
Messages: 130
Registered: May 2011
Location: Finland |
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| Nicky82 wrote on Thu, 16 June 2011 01:46 |
For the cultural differences I think it's a positive thing, each country has its own identity and that does not need to change, I am Italian and I will never be the same as a German but it doesn't matter, we are all European, national identies does not need to disappear (actually they make Europe that much more interesting), what is needed is to form an European identity that goes along the national one, it will take generations but I hope it will happen, too much blood has been shed over what divides us, and we have a lot to give to each other.
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Actually... I've seen theories that smaller-scale regional identities might be on the way to supplanting the "national" identities of "old", in Europe, as the next stage down from "European".
Many smaller regions of such countries as Italy, Spain and the UK (among others) do have very strong regional history, after all...
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| Re: Englishmen (and women) of the forum, unite! [message #41766 is a reply to message #41171 ] |
Fri, 17 June 2011 12:11 |
 Odin
Messages: 245
Registered: May 2011
Location: United States |
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Well I do have a friend who introduces herself as an "Occitan-American" instead of "French" but I had thought that was just her.
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| Re: Englishmen (and women) of the forum, unite! [message #41782 is a reply to message #41760 ] |
Fri, 17 June 2011 15:59 |
XaltatunOfAcheron
Messages: 1930
Registered: July 2005
Location: Atlantis |
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| mn-- wrote on Fri, 17 June 2011 09:07 | | Nicky82 wrote on Thu, 16 June 2011 01:46 |
For the cultural differences I think it's a positive thing, each country has its own identity and that does not need to change, I am Italian and I will never be the same as a German but it doesn't matter, we are all European, national identies does not need to disappear (actually they make Europe that much more interesting), what is needed is to form an European identity that goes along the national one, it will take generations but I hope it will happen, too much blood has been shed over what divides us, and we have a lot to give to each other.
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Actually... I've seen theories that smaller-scale regional identities might be on the way to supplanting the "national" identities of "old", in Europe, as the next stage down from "European".
Many smaller regions of such countries as Italy, Spain and the UK (among others) do have very strong regional history, after all...
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There's an old linguistics joke:
Q. What's the difference between a dialect and a language?
A. The language is the dialect with an army.
Most countries put up a more or less successful facade of national unity with outsiders. Once you get to know the territory a bit better, though...
Xaltatun
Oxymoron: Jumbo Shrimp
Impossible: Sustainable Growth
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| Re: Englishmen (and women) of the forum, unite! [message #41783 is a reply to message #41760 ] |
Fri, 17 June 2011 16:09 |
oljak.eru
Messages: 1341
Registered: December 2008 |
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Well, there's a whole lot of regional categories people can count themselves to. I'm a "Norrlänning", Swede, Scandinavian, Norse, Germanic, European. The strongest of those I think is the Norse identity - the Nordic countries have a rather similar political and ideological climate, very different from, for example, Greece. You can for most purposes in the European setting substitute the consensus in any Nordic country with that of another Nordic country and find the same political and ideological reasoning.
“I am SO level-headed! And anyone who says different is going to have to answer to... The CABBIT OF DOOM!” -Jade
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| Re: Englishmen (and women) of the forum, unite! [message #41785 is a reply to message #41783 ] |
Fri, 17 June 2011 16:54 |
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Anvildude
Messages: 1931
Registered: November 2008 |
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As an American, I have to say that's a rather interesting worldview. Personally, I'd have to say my strongest sense of Regional Identity is at the Country level, as an American. Second is the Continent, that I'm North American, and behind those it's the sense of being from a more Northern part of the country (I know what snow and below-zero temperatures are), which ties into being from the Great Lakes region. Distantly, perhaps even one of the furthest ways I id myself is by State (or rather, Commonwealth) as Pennsylvanian.
I have to wonder if that strong sense of American identity is shared by most Americans or not...
It's a sad thing when your paraphrase is longer than the original quote.
Survivor of the Great Crash of 2011
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| Re: Englishmen (and women) of the forum, unite! [message #41793 is a reply to message #41785 ] |
Fri, 17 June 2011 17:51 |
Avatard
Messages: 532
Registered: May 2011
Location: California |
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| Anvildude wrote on Fri, 17 June 2011 13:54 | As an American, I have to say that's a rather interesting worldview. Personally, I'd have to say my strongest sense of Regional Identity is at the Country level, as an American. Second is the Continent, that I'm North American, and behind those it's the sense of being from a more Northern part of the country (I know what snow and below-zero temperatures are), which ties into being from the Great Lakes region. Distantly, perhaps even one of the furthest ways I id myself is by State (or rather, Commonwealth) as Pennsylvanian.
I have to wonder if that strong sense of American identity is shared by most Americans or not...
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I would have to say I consider myself an American first, then... I really don't know, maybe a West Coster or something.
The purpose of life is a life of purpose - Robert Byrne
Knick-knack grinned. “Increase power!” - Jade 6;
Now THAT is science!
Victim of the Great Crash of 2011. PHOENIX TIME!
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| Re: Englishmen (and women) of the forum, unite! [message #41794 is a reply to message #41171 ] |
Fri, 17 June 2011 18:04 |
Kiai
Messages: 58
Registered: April 2008
Location: exploring the penultimate... |
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Some of the Harry Potter fanfiction Yahoo!groups have UK-based members who are pretty good about localising and Britpicking other people's works and answering questions. A good starting point is the CaerAzkaban group, run by Rorschach's Blot (author of "Make A Wish", from which came the Mister Black trope). About the only warning I'd raise is that this group is not fond of Harry/Ginny pairings (actually it's Ron/Hermione that's offensive, but canon Ginny is regarded as bad writing) and actively dislikes slash (m/m) especially when it's not tagged as such. I don't see any of that as a problem for the LitChix.
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| Re: Englishmen (and women) of the forum, unite! [message #41799 is a reply to message #41785 ] |
Fri, 17 June 2011 18:57 |
mn--
Messages: 130
Registered: May 2011
Location: Finland |
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| Anvildude wrote on Fri, 17 June 2011 23:54 | As an American, I have to say that's a rather interesting worldview. Personally, I'd have to say my strongest sense of Regional Identity is at the Country level, as an American. Second is the Continent, that I'm North American, and behind those it's the sense of being from a more Northern part of the country (I know what snow and below-zero temperatures are), which ties into being from the Great Lakes region. Distantly, perhaps even one of the furthest ways I id myself is by State (or rather, Commonwealth) as Pennsylvanian.
I have to wonder if that strong sense of American identity is shared by most Americans or not...
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That's what it seems like from the outside, anyway.
There are many countries in Europe that have much greater internal divisions... and many of the rest have regional identities across national borders that are much stronger than any "European" identity.
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| Re: Englishmen (and women) of the forum, unite! [message #41801 is a reply to message #41171 ] |
Fri, 17 June 2011 19:40 |
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Sir Lee
Messages: 3068
Registered: May 2005
Location: São Paulo, Brazil |
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As a Brazilian, I would say that most people I know have many levels of identification:
- Brazilian: very strong.
- State/regional: medium-strong.
- South American/Latina American: weak
- American continent/Western nations: medium-weak (we do identify a bit with the U.S., more than with our immediate neighbors...)
- Third-world/emerging nations: medium.
- Cultural ancestry: medium. Most people identify in same lavel with their cultural and ethnic roots. But it's a blurry thing, not quite hereditary. There's a lot of Italians in São Paulo, for instance. Myself, I have no Italian ancestry, but I got the identification by osmosis.
You can see that during the FIFA World Cups: besides rooting for the Brazilian team, of course, you will see quite a lot of people rooting *against* our immediate neighbors, or for Italy, or Nigeria. If you have an Italy x Argentina World Cup final, you are likelier to find a Brazilian rooting for Italy than for Argentina. The cultural/ethnic identification with Africa and Europe is stronger than the South America identification.
Another example (old, but telling): the Falklands war. Despite the official government spin at the time (ordering the press to always refer to the islands as "Malvinas" and such), the general outlook was that Argentina had no business invading the islands. Culturally, we felt no obligation to take Argentina's side even on an intellectual level.
Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
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Sent from my Bugs Industries® bPhone™
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| Re: Englishmen (and women) of the forum, unite! [message #41810 is a reply to message #41171 ] |
Fri, 17 June 2011 20:41 |
kd7mvs
Messages: 668
Registered: March 2009
Location: Tacoma, WA |
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I've always thought of myself as an Oregonian foremost, even during my six years in exile in Chicago. I'll shortly be having to change that self-identification, as I'm in the process of buying a house in Tacoma, Washington, and not expecting to move from there until I'm in a nursing home. So I'll change the self-identification to Pacific Northwesterner. American has always been a secondary ID for me. Something about being a fourth generation Oregonian, even though its only a fourth generation by family name, Mom was born in Idaho and Dad's mom was from England. So I also identify as 1/4 English, 1/4 Swedish, and 1/2 American mongrel given how long the families have been in the states.
Nikki Reilly: Sidhe who must be obeyed!
Goodkind International, The Good Ideas People™
Information wants to be free, and I will be the one who frees it! - Psike
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| Re: Englishmen (and women) of the forum, unite! [message #41813 is a reply to message #41171 ] |
Fri, 17 June 2011 21:04 |
lduke1990
Messages: 183
Registered: May 2011
Location: Aurora, Ontario, Canada |
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In terms of identity, my heritage is kind of screwy. Third generation Canadian on my Mom's side, first on my Dad's.
If you follow my Mom's side back, you run into métis (half native Canadian half French) in her Father, pure all the way back as far as we can tell. Her Mom's side goes back a further four generations in a small town in Kent England that apparently doesn't exist anymore, but is a strange mix of English, Scottish, Irish, North Irish (I am told there is a profound difference), and Welsh.
On my Dad's side there are seven generations of Vicentian (resident of Saint Vincent, the largest island which makes up the chain known as Saint Vincent and the Grenadines) by English extraction (another strange mix of bits and pieces from all over the UK and Ireland, however unlikely that may seem), which originated also in a small town in Kent England eight generations removed from me.
So I identify as Canadian, specifically Ontarian, but I have claim to being a United Kingdom mutt with some Irish thrown in, I technically have citizenship in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, though the process of claiming it makes it too troublesome to bother, and I have relatives who live alternately on reserves out in BC and near Dunkirk in France, as well as an uncle on my Father's side who resides in London at the moment. Basically I come from a long line of citizens of the United Kingdom who have spread all over the world.
I consider myself a student of British History, and a dab hand with foods of the UK and Ireland, but cannot claim expertise in either area. Slang and profanity are much easier as well as translation of "proper English" to "American English" as needed. Oh, and spelling, good lord spelling, Canadians and Brits seem to delight in adding "u"s and "a"s in words like color (colour) and hemorrhage (haemorrhage), where they are absent in their American counterparts. If I can help, I will.
it's an ell damnit
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| Re: Englishmen (and women) of the forum, unite! [message #41816 is a reply to message #41171 ] |
Fri, 17 June 2011 22:48 |
khade
Messages: 1592
Registered: May 2011
Location: Rockies |
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I think that I start with family, religion(Mormon as I've mentioned elsewhere), region(mountains in western part of USA, feel lost without them), state, and only then nation. But then again, I'm part of a culture that has not been treated well by governments, we've had an abusive relationship with the American government and assorted states governments since the 1830s, and as such don't necessarily trust governments much.
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| Re: Englishmen (and women) of the forum, unite! [message #41820 is a reply to message #41816 ] |
Fri, 17 June 2011 23:09 |
Avatard
Messages: 532
Registered: May 2011
Location: California |
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| khade wrote on Fri, 17 June 2011 19:48 | I think that I start with family, religion(Mormon as I've mentioned elsewhere), region(mountains in western part of USA, feel lost without them), state, and only then nation. But then again, I'm part of a culture that has not been treated well by governments, we've had an abusive relationship with the American government and assorted states governments since the 1830s, and as such don't necessarily trust governments much.
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Haha! Almost everyone has been mistreated by the government in some way. Hell, the religion I am nominally a part of isn't a religion in some first world countries.
The purpose of life is a life of purpose - Robert Byrne
Knick-knack grinned. “Increase power!” - Jade 6;
Now THAT is science!
Victim of the Great Crash of 2011. PHOENIX TIME!
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