Home » The Crystal Hall » Questions and Answers » Spirit Power Levels (What Avatar levels allow which spirits?)
| Spirit Power Levels [message #52776] |
Wed, 01 February 2012 03:02  |
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 GuesssWho
Messages: 257
Registered: December 2011 |
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I was thinking of doing a fanfic about an Avatar of the kelpie (a fey horse that tends to drown riders), and I realized I don't know what the differences in Avatar level really mean.
So, what level would be the best to hold:
a pagan god
a dragon spirit
a fey spirit (elf, goblin, ogre, whatever else you can think of)
various animals (are tigers more powerful than spiders? can an Avatar strong enough to handle an elephant hold an entire pack of wolves?)
etc
It would be nice to have a list of spirit types with their power levels, so we don't have to decide again each time.
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| Re: Spirit Power Levels [message #52781 is a reply to message #52776 ] |
Wed, 01 February 2012 04:04  |
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greyman
Messages: 230
Registered: May 2011 |
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The wikia has some information on Avatar ranking, though this may or may-not be out of date.
| http://crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Avatar | Rough rankings are as such:
AV 1 - an individual spirit... the spirit of the Oak Tree on the west hill of our farm, the spirit of your pet basset hound, etc.
AV 2 - the spirit of a 'class of creature or entity'... Bear, Fire Elementals, Wind
AV 3 - a greater class or an archetype/totem... Thunderbird, Coyote, Raven, Fallen deities, extra-planar entities, etc.
AV 4 - active deities, 'forces' (ie... Champion, Astarte, Fred, etc), higher totems/archetypes like Grandfather Sky, etc.
AV 5+ - Gaea, active and highly worshipped deities, multi-planar entities, stuff that is really powerful enough that it doesn't need a host... and probably shouldn't be trapped inside someone for any reason anyway, even willingly.
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On this scale, I'd rank a kelpie as level-2.
[Updated on: Wed, 01 February 2012 04:15]
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| Re: Spirit Power Levels [message #52783 is a reply to message #52781 ] |
Wed, 01 February 2012 04:16 |
realmfighter
Messages: 35
Registered: May 2011 |
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Isn't the level of the avatar Independent of the spirits strength? I think I heard it described as if the avatar was of a lower level than the spirit the avatar wouldn't be as powerful as a higher level avatar with the same spirit and the spirit would have a stronger influence over the avatar. And when the avatar was higher level than the spirit the spirit would grow to fill up the potential power of the avatar.
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| Re: Spirit Power Levels [message #52786 is a reply to message #52783 ] |
Wed, 01 February 2012 06:34 |
Niknokitueu
Messages: 668
Registered: May 2011
Location: Swansea, UK |
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| realmfighter wrote on Wed, 01 February 2012 09:16 | Isn't the level of the avatar Independent of the spirits strength? I think I heard it described as if the avatar was of a lower level than the spirit the avatar wouldn't be as powerful as a higher level avatar with the same spirit and the spirit would have a stronger influence over the avatar. And when the avatar was higher level than the spirit the spirit would grow to fill up the potential power of the avatar.
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I think that the above is a good indicator of expected avatar to comfortably hold said spirit.
If an AV-1 got a spirit that needed an AV-3 to easily hold, there would be several problems:
(a) the spirit would try to make his body more livable. Possibly fatally.
(b) the spirit would be starved, so would only be able to generate AV-1 level effects
(c) the spirit would not be under the control of the avatar, or at least would have continual conflicts of interest, and may well overwhelm the host's behaviour.
On the other hand, if an AV-3 got a spirit that an AV-1 could use, you would have the following benefits:
(a) the spirit would be completely subservient to the needs of its host
(b) the spirit would be able to work at the very top of its abilities, and would also grow in power over time until it could theoretically hit AV-3 power levels
(c) the host would have complete and total control over the spirit's abilites. It in effect would be completely subsumed by his will, in effect the host and spirit would be one.
There are no doubt other points of interest, but I am fairly sure that the above is more-or-less Canon.
Have Fun!
Niknokitueu
Do, or Do Not. There is no Try.
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| Re: Spirit Power Levels [message #52795 is a reply to message #52781 ] |
Wed, 01 February 2012 15:25 |
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Diane Castle
Messages: 2511
Registered: September 2007
Location: Oregon, USA |
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| greyman wrote on Wed, 01 February 2012 01:04 | The wikia has some information on Avatar ranking, though this may or may-not be out of date.
| http://crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Avatar | Rough rankings are as such:
AV 1 - an individual spirit... the spirit of the Oak Tree on the west hill of our farm, the spirit of your pet basset hound, etc.
AV 2 - the spirit of a 'class of creature or entity'... Bear, Fire Elementals, Wind
AV 3 - a greater class or an archetype/totem... Thunderbird, Coyote, Raven, Fallen deities, extra-planar entities, etc.
AV 4 - active deities, 'forces' (ie... Champion, Astarte, Fred, etc), higher totems/archetypes like Grandfather Sky, etc.
AV 5+ - Gaea, active and highly worshipped deities, multi-planar entities, stuff that is really powerful enough that it doesn't need a host... and probably shouldn't be trapped inside someone for any reason anyway, even willingly.
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On this scale, I'd rank a kelpie as level-2.
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We probably need to re-visit that scale some day. I would prefer it if the wikia listed that scale as 'questionable'. It's just too high-end for Whateley. If a 5 could handle Gaea, then what's a 7? That's like an Avatar scale for DC Comics.
In the Whateley Universe, Avatars simply aren't powerful enough to handle something as awesome as an active and highly worshipped deity. Or all the energy of all of Gaea. Or our friend the Demon Who Has No Vowels.
But yes, the definition of AV-1 is right. The scale just shouldn't launch that fast.
Also, the scale for Avatars is more complicated than this, since it involves issues like 'can host more than one spirit', 'can host more than one spirit which do not mesh well in nature', 'can completely control said spirit', 'can crush spirits together into a force', etc.
Now then, lets think about your case. Are you talking about the spirit of a single kelpie? The spirit of a group of kelpies? The spirit of a class of kelpies? The spirit representing all kelpies everywhere? Figure that an Avatar able to absorb and *control* the spirit would have to be maybe an AV-1 for the first, an AV-2 for the second, an AV-4 for the third, and an AV-6 or AV-7 for the last.
The New Olympians are not a typical Avatar case, either. In their cases, the spirits possessed the infants. It's not an Avatar power at all.
Diane
"WHO has deactivated my BEAUTIFUL frogs?"
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| Re: Spirit Power Levels [message #52796 is a reply to message #52783 ] |
Wed, 01 February 2012 15:49 |
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Diane Castle
Messages: 2511
Registered: September 2007
Location: Oregon, USA |
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| realmfighter wrote on Wed, 01 February 2012 01:16 | Isn't the level of the avatar Independent of the spirits strength? I think I heard it described as if the avatar was of a lower level than the spirit the avatar wouldn't be as powerful as a higher level avatar with the same spirit and the spirit would have a stronger influence over the avatar. And when the avatar was higher level than the spirit the spirit would grow to fill up the potential power of the avatar.
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The level of the Avatar is related to the strength of the spirit he (or she) can pick up without being physically or mentally shredded like a kleenex in a tornado.
I don't think you heard any of these claims from canon authors, so take them with a grain of salt. A *big* grain of salt. Maybe a halite cube the size of a giftbox. 
If the Avatar is a lot stronger in level than the spirit that he/she picked up, then that means the Avatar can go pick up other spirits. If the Avatar is strong enough, s?he can pick up spirits which conflict and force them to coexist (spirit of the bear, meet spirit of the salmon). If the Avatar is strong enough he/she can take those spirits and smash them together into a 'force'. Since this has really only happened ONCE, it is exceedingly rare. (Only the Champion Force is natural. The Astarte Force is from Elizabeth Carson carrying the Champion Force within her. The other known 'forces' are all artificial attempts to re-create the Champion Force by mad scientists.)
There is also the whole issue of what does your spirit mean? Anna has the spirit of the squirrel. But is it a small, local spirit? Is it some sort of local-scale spirit of all squirrels? Is it a regional all-encompassing spirit? Is it the spirit of all squirrels everywhere? There are different levels of spirits, and not all Avatars can handle all such levels. (Anna is an AV-1. She does NOT have one of the high-end all-powerful spirits.)
Diane
"WHO has deactivated my BEAUTIFUL frogs?"
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| Re: Spirit Power Levels [message #52820 is a reply to message #52795 ] |
Wed, 01 February 2012 21:22 |
curiousreader
Messages: 329
Registered: May 2011
Location: Southern United States |
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| Diane Castle wrote on Wed, 01 February 2012 15:25 | | greyman wrote on Wed, 01 February 2012 01:04 | The wikia has some information on Avatar ranking, though this may or may-not be out of date.
| http://crystalhall.wikia.com/wiki/Avatar | Rough rankings are as such:
AV 1 - an individual spirit... the spirit of the Oak Tree on the west hill of our farm, the spirit of your pet basset hound, etc.
AV 2 - the spirit of a 'class of creature or entity'... Bear, Fire Elementals, Wind
AV 3 - a greater class or an archetype/totem... Thunderbird, Coyote, Raven, Fallen deities, extra-planar entities, etc.
AV 4 - active deities, 'forces' (ie... Champion, Astarte, Fred, etc), higher totems/archetypes like Grandfather Sky, etc.
AV 5+ - Gaea, active and highly worshipped deities, multi-planar entities, stuff that is really powerful enough that it doesn't need a host... and probably shouldn't be trapped inside someone for any reason anyway, even willingly.
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On this scale, I'd rank a kelpie as level-2.
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We probably need to re-visit that scale some day. I would prefer it if the wikia listed that scale as 'questionable'. It's just too high-end for Whateley. If a 5 could handle Gaea, then what's a 7? That's like an Avatar scale for DC Comics.
In the Whateley Universe, Avatars simply aren't powerful enough to handle something as awesome as an active and highly worshipped deity. Or all the energy of all of Gaea. Or our friend the Demon Who Has No Vowels.
But yes, the definition of AV-1 is right. The scale just shouldn't launch that fast.
Also, the scale for Avatars is more complicated than this, since it involves issues like 'can host more than one spirit', 'can host more than one spirit which do not mesh well in nature', 'can completely control said spirit', 'can crush spirits together into a force', etc.
Now then, lets think about your case. Are you talking about the spirit of a single kelpie? The spirit of a group of kelpies? The spirit of a class of kelpies? The spirit representing all kelpies everywhere? Figure that an Avatar able to absorb and *control* the spirit would have to be maybe an AV-1 for the first, an AV-2 for the second, an AV-4 for the third, and an AV-6 or AV-7 for the last.
The New Olympians are not a typical Avatar case, either. In their cases, the spirits possessed the infants. It's not an Avatar power at all.
Diane
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So are you say that the list does go up to seven?
So it would take a 7+ to be able to house the representation of the Earth? Or is that still not enough to carry something like that off?
In that case how about a grim reaper? its not the complete embodiment of death just one of the workers, still its highly powerful and dangerous so it might be something like a five or six at least?
[Updated on: Wed, 01 February 2012 21:22]
Nothing is impossible, it's just that somethings are less likely then others. -Author Unknown
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| Re: Spirit Power Levels [message #52821 is a reply to message #52820 ] |
Wed, 01 February 2012 21:37 |
polarone
Messages: 435
Registered: May 2011
Location: Orion Arm of the Milky Wa... |
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| curiousreader wrote on Wed, 01 February 2012 21:22 |
So are you say that the list does go up to seven?
So it would take a 7+ to be able to house the representation of the Earth? Or is that still not enough to carry something like that off?
In that case how about a grim reaper? its not the complete embodiment of death just one of the workers, still its highly powerful and dangerous so it might be something like a five or six at least?
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It would probably depend on the power of the reaper (there is an entire thread devoted to this that I am to lazy to find at the moment). To use an example: Anna is an AV-1 with a simple squirrel spirit; imagine however, if she were an AV-7 with THE squirrel spirit, she could turn all of the humans on Earth into squirrels, or pull a Planet of the Apes.
**This is not intended to give Diane any ideas to use in one of her dasterdly schemes.**
"Quote."
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| Re: Spirit Power Levels [message #52825 is a reply to message #52820 ] |
Wed, 01 February 2012 22:04 |
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ShinZed
Messages: 156
Registered: May 2011
Location: UK |
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| curiousreader wrote on Thu, 02 February 2012 02:22 | So are you say that the list does go up to seven?
So it would take a 7+ to be able to house the representation of the Earth? Or is that still not enough to carry something like that off?
In that case how about a grim reaper? its not the complete embodiment of death just one of the workers, still its highly powerful and dangerous so it might be something like a five or six at least?
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There isn't really a level after 7. 7 is just where they go 'Well hell, this is just too over the top for us to classify on a regular scale'. I'm surprised Tennyo isn't listed Warper 7 along with her regen, but then she hasn't pulled off her most powerful stuff in the tests yet.
I imagine a grim reaper would require at least a 4 or 5+ avatar, given that their abilities would probably confer powers that make things dead, fast.
If I recall correctly though, Kodiak isn't a particularly high rank avatar, but he certainly does seem to have a pretty darn badass bear spirit. He can't completely control it though. Given that it left him once already it seems that a high level spirit can set up shop in a lower level avatar if the two of them get along.
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| Re: Spirit Power Levels [message #52833 is a reply to message #52776 ] |
Wed, 01 February 2012 23:16 |
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GuesssWho
Messages: 257
Registered: December 2011 |
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Alright, how about someone who is a reincarnation of a magical being? Would a dragon reborn be an Avatar or something else?
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| Re: Spirit Power Levels [message #52835 is a reply to message #52833 ] |
Wed, 01 February 2012 23:32 |
realmfighter
Messages: 35
Registered: May 2011 |
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No. Avatar is a type of Mutant. I would assume you call the reborn Dragon a Dragon.
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